Bowling for Assbags

Why are you giving this fat worthless piece of shit, complete waste of oxygen, morally corrupt, ass licking, pond scum, insignificant, poor excuse for a camel turd, embarrassment to his parents, cock sucker the time of day?

Kevin said it all! This vile self-loathing windbag can find nothing good about the country that makes it possible for a dumb, no-talent scumbag like himself to become a rich celebrity. God bless America.

When you’re an American, and you’re praising the people killing our soldiers and proudly proclaiming “they will win,” I have a problem with you.

It’s not dissent, it’s treason, and I’m really fucking tired of every piece of hate america speech being classified as dissent.

Dissent:

“I don’t agree with this war because…”

Treason:

“The Iraqis will win!!”

See the difference? Oh wait, you probably don’t.

Dissent is fine, but a person should be able to back his dissent with some basic facts and/or arguments, if they want to be taken seriously. Mr. Moore just parrots the same tired old anti-America, anti-capitalist propoganda that has been in the commie playbook for generations.

Vinny, with respect:

a) your soldiers are occupying their country.
b) I would bet a fair percentage of the Iraqi population sees them as an occupying force. I would also bet that a fair percentage of the Iraqi population has some sympathy for the insurgents they see fighting the occupying force.
c) Your own guy in Bagdhad said not two days ago that the Iraqi armed forces and police were not going to be able to maintain security, and commented on what he saw as an excessively sympathetic attitude toward the insurgents.

So I think Moore is commenting, in language as inflammatory as he can, that the guys fighting Americans in Iraq…some of them, anyway…are a bit like the Mujahadeen and Taliban who fought the Russian invaders of Afghanistan. Most countries don’t, in fact, like being occupied.

And, I did ask a legitimate question: Why is it that anytime you criticize Michael Moore, you’re accused of stifling dissent?

“Why is it that anytime you criticize Michael Moore, you’re accused of stifling dissent?”

In short Vinny, your not.

Some people may, but they are the same types of people who tell Americans who criticize Bush’s actions in Iraq that they are unpatriotic and (just possibly) treasonous, or who tell non-Americans like me that we’re terrorist loving, anti-American, asshats, who have no idea what we’re talking about because it didn’t happen to us.

I try not to generalize the entire right by the rambling and muttering of their idiots, and you shouldn’t generalize the left by theirs.

If my comments regarding the afore mentioned piece of shit,(see item #1 above) constitute stifling dissent, so be it. I’ve been accused of worse things by better people.This particular person deserves no response other than that that which was given.
Others with an HONEST disenting point of view do not and will not be given the same response. I have no apology to make for my sentiment. For those offended by my choice of words, I do apologize.
Vinnys point about the difference between dissent and treason is right on the mark.

And a follow up question…was Solzhenitsyn a traitor to Russia for pointing out, accurately, that the Soviet Army was an occupying force, largely unwelcome, and would be driven out of Afghanistan?

Russia DID call him one at the time. Americans who agreed with him felt he was a hero for having the guts to speak out. (He was living in exile in the US at the time).

What would you say is the social duty of an American honestly who takes great exception to the current occupation of Iraq, and foresees an eventual American expulsion?

And again…where was it you feel you were accused of stifling defeat?

Vocal guys with opinions are fine, but there is such a thing as responsible opinions. Not that you change it to not offend, but you have a sense of decorum when saying it.

History will determine whether Moore is a visionary or just a malcontent, and they will do so in the context of his books, speeches, and articles.

I don’t know enough about Solzhenitsyn to speak about him. Also, note, that I didn’t say he was a traitor, I said the people who thought so would have a valid point…

Just for shits and giggles, here’s the whole thing:

Heads Up… from Michael Moore

Michael Moore
mmflint@aol.com
http://www.michaelmoore.com

He’s basically an entertainer…not really a political analyst or a journalist, but a kind of topical comedian.

Personally I find him funny a lot of the time (certainly funnier than Ann Coulter, another entertainer who pretends to be a journalist), but too manipulative for my taste. His weakness, like Ms. Coulter’s is that he is playing to a loyal constituency, but too offensive to win new converts.

I’m wondering where I sit on the scale….. if there is one that is.

Rhetoric aside, I agree with some of the stuff Moore has written here, and disagree with some of it.

Is it the words that he has chosen to state his opinion? Or is it what he is actually saying that has everyones knickers in such an uproar?

it’s both what he says and how he says it. if I was a GI in Iraq right now, I’d want his head on a stick. seriously. this guy says inflammatory stuff, then chuckles and whines “I’m just a comedian, haha”. his shit isn’t funny– we’re talking about lives here.

in my prev. comment: Russians should be Soviets.

Nath, what the Russians said at the time was that they were invading Afghanistan because it represented a dangerous threat to the integrity of the Soviet Union. Their goal was to topple the anti-Soviet government, install a regime friendly to the USSR, then retire. Sound a bit familiar?

As for the rest of your argument, it’s been used by supporters of every war to discourage war critics since as far back as World War One, by governments of both the right and left. I personally feel any state is best served by the most open criticism and the freest press possible.

Well, I have to disagree. Dissent or political commentary comes in more forms than reasoned debate, and you know it…on this site you’ve posted, linked to or featured parodies, simple strings of insult, mocking photos…it’s all legit. How funny one finds it is probably to a large degree determined by the extent to which one agrees with the point being made.

I don’t agree that a critic of a war…any war…should shut up because he/she might weaken the national resolve, or whatever. That’s the intent…to change your government’s policy position. Calling that treason is silly, in my opinion…sillier than Ann Coulter dismissing liberals as traitors.

There is substance to what he is saying above, although you seem too angry to see it. In essence, he’s recapitulating the key point of a discussion that’s been running at Stageleft, on the disparity between the US’s claim to be winning hearts and minds, and the growing anger of what appears to be a growing sector of what were once moderate Iraqis. Except he’s making a speech out of it. Others are doing it in cartoons, or nasty songs…or threads on blogs.

And to think I was once worried about the decline of substantive debate in American politics. Whatever was I thinking?

I agree completely, and I’m sure that upon contemplation of your sage words, Vinny and Nath will rethink their response to Mr. Moore.

I agree with you: Vinny and Nath have every right to call Moore a “traitor”, or every single person enlisted in the armed forces a “hero”, or the current adminstration’s policy a “war” on terror, or the Goodyear blimp a camel, if they want to. I’m certainly not suggesting they shouldn’t have the right to say that stuff, especially on Vinny’s own website.

I’m simply trying, with the benefit of my advanced years and staggering wisdom, to help them understand how mistaken they are.

I actually live in the nation’s capital, home of the ignominious and inglorious Senators (adjectives applicable to both the hockey team and the politicians), but most of my work is in Nunavut (long commute). I’m about a three day drive from Corner Brook….you gotta go by ferry to Cape Breton, then Nova Scotia, up through Fredericton to Riviere Du Loup, south shore to Montreal.

BTW, if I were to go to Ottawa, I’d probably take Canada Jet.

Green, I tend to be a bit all over the map politically, and prefer to vote for honest, committeed politicians than the party. So I’ve supported David McDonald and Robert Stanfield (Conservative) as well as Marion Dewar and Pat Fraser (NDP). Ed has always struck me as a smart and totally decent guy, and I’d probably vote for him if I was in his riding.

As far as I can tell, the halfway point for Stageleft, me, Vinny, you and Nathalie would be somewhere in Nebraska. You pick the bar and the date.

Kevin, not sure how you’ve decided that Moore doesn’t mean or care about what he’s saying. I guess that’s one way to dismiss him, but I don’t think you’re right.

Get rid of that real life stuff if it’s getting in the way of your participation.

Look at your latest post, the great crusader for the working man in the US is out-sourcing his crap to Canada. Yea he’s a true believer alright.
I’m telling ya it’s the money and fame.
And I can’t believe you sucked me into wasting more time on this ass wipe. I may need some type of counseling after this….
bal, hows the weather in Canada?

I’d come up with something really sharp to say if I could stop laughing long enough.
I’ve got this funny feeling I’m gonna regret this but, what is Poutine?

Ok guys, I’m not a doctor or anthing, but here’s what I’m thinking.. Ya’ll live so far north that your not getting enough oxygen.
Ya’ll come on down and we’ll fix up some good southern food, that doesn’t entail eating any fish bait fermented or otherwise. You boys worry me…

bal, don’t take that act on the road, I’m afraid that you’ll starve.
I was in Rochester, New York once and asked for Chicken fried steak and iced tea for dinner, those poor folks didn’t have a clue what it was i was talking about. They brought out some Eyetailyawn (Italian) food that I had never heard of before, and just thinking about it now makes my mouth water… Never have had any French food that I know of.

You drink hot tea in Texas under two conditions, A. you and the other little old ladies in your shawls have a spell or B. your trying to kill a cough by fixin (dont’ start) a small cup of hot tea, a large slug (again don’t start)of whisky and a small drop of honey and lemon juice. The small cup of hot tea is not for the cough, it’s to keep the local Baptist from thinking bad of you for drinking the whiskey.
I’ll be damned, my father in law is a Canadian, who da thunk it? I always thought it was him being strange eating vinegar on his fries.

I’d pass your compliment on to the ol’ boy, but he starts getting cross eyed and honery when I use words with more than on syllable.
He traveled the length of Canada with his wife ( a true saint ) last year, they did it in about 6 months.
To quote him “Nice place they got up there, sum bitches talk funny liken thay mightbe foreign or sumpin” “Got sum funny damn holerdays too, also gottem lots of them Frenchmens liven up in there wit em”.
So you see, the complement may not have the desired effect.

Green Baron, thanks for the tip, I’m afraid I wouldn’t know what to order. I’ve spent more than a few un-remembered nights in your fair city as a young man. It is somthing of a right of passage (or was when I was young) for young men in Texas to borrow a car and partake the experience that is Marti Gra(sp). While there I acquired a life long affection for blues and jazz. Two of modern mans greatest forms of expression. Along the way I also developed a true distaste for Dixie Land Jazz, IMHO nothing more than energetic noise.

Poutine SOUNDS nasty?

My dear, that’s NOTHING to the way it looks. http://photos.colinmackenzie.net/Party!/Mmmm!%20Poutine!.JPG

Be grateful I refrained from posting a picture in the Diaper Thread.

the poutine and misseraq had me worried last night, now your starting to scare me.

I was told, by a total stranger on a flight from Boston to London, that there are 2 places you should never visit if you like good food: Canada and Great Britain. (this as I was preparing to spend a week in northern Scotland)

-cjb-

Why are you giving this fat worthless piece of shit, complete waste of oxygen, morally corrupt, ass licking, pond scum, insignificant, poor excuse for a camel turd, embarrassment to his parents, cock sucker the time of day?

Kevin said it all! This vile self-loathing windbag can find nothing good about the country that makes it possible for a dumb, no-talent scumbag like himself to become a rich celebrity. God bless America.

When you’re an American, and you’re praising the people killing our soldiers and proudly proclaiming “they will win,” I have a problem with you.

It’s not dissent, it’s treason, and I’m really fucking tired of every piece of hate america speech being classified as dissent.

Dissent:

“I don’t agree with this war because…”

Treason:

“The Iraqis will win!!”

See the difference? Oh wait, you probably don’t.

Dissent is fine, but a person should be able to back his dissent with some basic facts and/or arguments, if they want to be taken seriously. Mr. Moore just parrots the same tired old anti-America, anti-capitalist propoganda that has been in the commie playbook for generations.

Vinny, with respect:

a) your soldiers are occupying their country.
b) I would bet a fair percentage of the Iraqi population sees them as an occupying force. I would also bet that a fair percentage of the Iraqi population has some sympathy for the insurgents they see fighting the occupying force.
c) Your own guy in Bagdhad said not two days ago that the Iraqi armed forces and police were not going to be able to maintain security, and commented on what he saw as an excessively sympathetic attitude toward the insurgents.

So I think Moore is commenting, in language as inflammatory as he can, that the guys fighting Americans in Iraq…some of them, anyway…are a bit like the Mujahadeen and Taliban who fought the Russian invaders of Afghanistan. Most countries don’t, in fact, like being occupied.

And, I did ask a legitimate question: Why is it that anytime you criticize Michael Moore, you’re accused of stifling dissent?

“Why is it that anytime you criticize Michael Moore, you’re accused of stifling dissent?”

In short Vinny, your not.

Some people may, but they are the same types of people who tell Americans who criticize Bush’s actions in Iraq that they are unpatriotic and (just possibly) treasonous, or who tell non-Americans like me that we’re terrorist loving, anti-American, asshats, who have no idea what we’re talking about because it didn’t happen to us.

I try not to generalize the entire right by the rambling and muttering of their idiots, and you shouldn’t generalize the left by theirs.

If my comments regarding the afore mentioned piece of shit,(see item #1 above) constitute stifling dissent, so be it. I’ve been accused of worse things by better people.This particular person deserves no response other than that that which was given.
Others with an HONEST disenting point of view do not and will not be given the same response. I have no apology to make for my sentiment. For those offended by my choice of words, I do apologize.
Vinnys point about the difference between dissent and treason is right on the mark.

And a follow up question…was Solzhenitsyn a traitor to Russia for pointing out, accurately, that the Soviet Army was an occupying force, largely unwelcome, and would be driven out of Afghanistan?

Russia DID call him one at the time. Americans who agreed with him felt he was a hero for having the guts to speak out. (He was living in exile in the US at the time).

What would you say is the social duty of an American honestly who takes great exception to the current occupation of Iraq, and foresees an eventual American expulsion?

And again…where was it you feel you were accused of stifling defeat?

Vocal guys with opinions are fine, but there is such a thing as responsible opinions. Not that you change it to not offend, but you have a sense of decorum when saying it.

History will determine whether Moore is a visionary or just a malcontent, and they will do so in the context of his books, speeches, and articles.

I don’t know enough about Solzhenitsyn to speak about him. Also, note, that I didn’t say he was a traitor, I said the people who thought so would have a valid point…

Just for shits and giggles, here’s the whole thing:

Heads Up… from Michael Moore

Michael Moore
mmflint@aol.com
http://www.michaelmoore.com

He’s basically an entertainer…not really a political analyst or a journalist, but a kind of topical comedian.

Personally I find him funny a lot of the time (certainly funnier than Ann Coulter, another entertainer who pretends to be a journalist), but too manipulative for my taste. His weakness, like Ms. Coulter’s is that he is playing to a loyal constituency, but too offensive to win new converts.

I’m wondering where I sit on the scale….. if there is one that is.

Rhetoric aside, I agree with some of the stuff Moore has written here, and disagree with some of it.

Is it the words that he has chosen to state his opinion? Or is it what he is actually saying that has everyones knickers in such an uproar?

it’s both what he says and how he says it. if I was a GI in Iraq right now, I’d want his head on a stick. seriously. this guy says inflammatory stuff, then chuckles and whines “I’m just a comedian, haha”. his shit isn’t funny– we’re talking about lives here.

in my prev. comment: Russians should be Soviets.

Nath, what the Russians said at the time was that they were invading Afghanistan because it represented a dangerous threat to the integrity of the Soviet Union. Their goal was to topple the anti-Soviet government, install a regime friendly to the USSR, then retire. Sound a bit familiar?

As for the rest of your argument, it’s been used by supporters of every war to discourage war critics since as far back as World War One, by governments of both the right and left. I personally feel any state is best served by the most open criticism and the freest press possible.

Well, I have to disagree. Dissent or political commentary comes in more forms than reasoned debate, and you know it…on this site you’ve posted, linked to or featured parodies, simple strings of insult, mocking photos…it’s all legit. How funny one finds it is probably to a large degree determined by the extent to which one agrees with the point being made.

I don’t agree that a critic of a war…any war…should shut up because he/she might weaken the national resolve, or whatever. That’s the intent…to change your government’s policy position. Calling that treason is silly, in my opinion…sillier than Ann Coulter dismissing liberals as traitors.

There is substance to what he is saying above, although you seem too angry to see it. In essence, he’s recapitulating the key point of a discussion that’s been running at Stageleft, on the disparity between the US’s claim to be winning hearts and minds, and the growing anger of what appears to be a growing sector of what were once moderate Iraqis. Except he’s making a speech out of it. Others are doing it in cartoons, or nasty songs…or threads on blogs.

And to think I was once worried about the decline of substantive debate in American politics. Whatever was I thinking?

I agree completely, and I’m sure that upon contemplation of your sage words, Vinny and Nath will rethink their response to Mr. Moore.

I agree with you: Vinny and Nath have every right to call Moore a “traitor”, or every single person enlisted in the armed forces a “hero”, or the current adminstration’s policy a “war” on terror, or the Goodyear blimp a camel, if they want to. I’m certainly not suggesting they shouldn’t have the right to say that stuff, especially on Vinny’s own website.

I’m simply trying, with the benefit of my advanced years and staggering wisdom, to help them understand how mistaken they are.

I actually live in the nation’s capital, home of the ignominious and inglorious Senators (adjectives applicable to both the hockey team and the politicians), but most of my work is in Nunavut (long commute). I’m about a three day drive from Corner Brook….you gotta go by ferry to Cape Breton, then Nova Scotia, up through Fredericton to Riviere Du Loup, south shore to Montreal.

BTW, if I were to go to Ottawa, I’d probably take Canada Jet.

Green, I tend to be a bit all over the map politically, and prefer to vote for honest, committeed politicians than the party. So I’ve supported David McDonald and Robert Stanfield (Conservative) as well as Marion Dewar and Pat Fraser (NDP). Ed has always struck me as a smart and totally decent guy, and I’d probably vote for him if I was in his riding.

As far as I can tell, the halfway point for Stageleft, me, Vinny, you and Nathalie would be somewhere in Nebraska. You pick the bar and the date.

Kevin, not sure how you’ve decided that Moore doesn’t mean or care about what he’s saying. I guess that’s one way to dismiss him, but I don’t think you’re right.

Get rid of that real life stuff if it’s getting in the way of your participation.

Look at your latest post, the great crusader for the working man in the US is out-sourcing his crap to Canada. Yea he’s a true believer alright.
I’m telling ya it’s the money and fame.
And I can’t believe you sucked me into wasting more time on this ass wipe. I may need some type of counseling after this….
bal, hows the weather in Canada?

I’d come up with something really sharp to say if I could stop laughing long enough.
I’ve got this funny feeling I’m gonna regret this but, what is Poutine?

Ok guys, I’m not a doctor or anthing, but here’s what I’m thinking.. Ya’ll live so far north that your not getting enough oxygen.
Ya’ll come on down and we’ll fix up some good southern food, that doesn’t entail eating any fish bait fermented or otherwise. You boys worry me…

bal, don’t take that act on the road, I’m afraid that you’ll starve.
I was in Rochester, New York once and asked for Chicken fried steak and iced tea for dinner, those poor folks didn’t have a clue what it was i was talking about. They brought out some Eyetailyawn (Italian) food that I had never heard of before, and just thinking about it now makes my mouth water… Never have had any French food that I know of.

You drink hot tea in Texas under two conditions, A. you and the other little old ladies in your shawls have a spell or B. your trying to kill a cough by fixin (dont’ start) a small cup of hot tea, a large slug (again don’t start)of whisky and a small drop of honey and lemon juice. The small cup of hot tea is not for the cough, it’s to keep the local Baptist from thinking bad of you for drinking the whiskey.
I’ll be damned, my father in law is a Canadian, who da thunk it? I always thought it was him being strange eating vinegar on his fries.

I’d pass your compliment on to the ol’ boy, but he starts getting cross eyed and honery when I use words with more than on syllable.
He traveled the length of Canada with his wife ( a true saint ) last year, they did it in about 6 months.
To quote him “Nice place they got up there, sum bitches talk funny liken thay mightbe foreign or sumpin” “Got sum funny damn holerdays too, also gottem lots of them Frenchmens liven up in there wit em”.
So you see, the complement may not have the desired effect.

Green Baron, thanks for the tip, I’m afraid I wouldn’t know what to order. I’ve spent more than a few un-remembered nights in your fair city as a young man. It is somthing of a right of passage (or was when I was young) for young men in Texas to borrow a car and partake the experience that is Marti Gra(sp). While there I acquired a life long affection for blues and jazz. Two of modern mans greatest forms of expression. Along the way I also developed a true distaste for Dixie Land Jazz, IMHO nothing more than energetic noise.

Poutine SOUNDS nasty?

My dear, that’s NOTHING to the way it looks. http://photos.colinmackenzie.net/Party!/Mmmm!%20Poutine!.JPG

Be grateful I refrained from posting a picture in the Diaper Thread.

the poutine and misseraq had me worried last night, now your starting to scare me.

I was told, by a total stranger on a flight from Boston to London, that there are 2 places you should never visit if you like good food: Canada and Great Britain. (this as I was preparing to spend a week in northern Scotland)

-cjb-