Kerry: Draft Likely to Return Under Bush

Yahoo! News – Kerry: Draft Likely to Return Under Bush

Only one problem Flipper…

The push to reinstate the draft was started by Charlie Rangel (D – NY) in an effort to send the rich white kids of politicians to Iraq instead of the poor black kids in the projects that make up the bulk of soldiers (his words, not mine).

But hey, that’s just a fact.

What are facts to Flipper?

Fucking AP.

Kerry didn’t say that in that particular speech either in the article or otherwise. He has continually insinuated it, but he didn’t say it here.

AP can’t get shit straight. I wonder. Yet another example of sloppy journalism.

This entry was posted in Ironic. Bookmark the permalink.
  • steven

    Now for the real point of the bill, lest it get shot into orbit by spin:

    “The lawmaker has said his measure could make members of Congress more reluctant to authorize military action. The Korean War veteran has accused President Bush and some fellow lawmakers of being too eager to go to war.”

    You’ve just read a good example of the proposals that Congresspeople make from time to time that have no chance of passing, but look good to constituents.

  • Alan H.

    I seem to remember Senator Flipper attacking the Vice President and the Speaker of the House for his perception that they were using fear to win votes for the President. His comments today are clearly an attempt to scare the American public into not voting for the President. I guess he changed his position on this too.

  • http://www.insignificantthoughts.com Vinny

    The real point of the bill was to have the rich white folks have their kids go off to war. He said so himself.

    So if Kerry is worried about the draft being reinstated, then he’s looking at the wrong party.

    See Steven, it’s really simple. Even you can understand it!

  • http://www.robertkbrown.com/ RKB

    I don’t know how they come up with these headlines, Vinny. Here’s the third paragraph:

    Answering a question about the draft that had been posed at a forum with voters, Kerry said: “If George Bush were to be re-elected, given the way he has gone about this war and given his avoidance of responsibility in North Korea and Iran and other places, is it possible? I can’t tell you.”

    How that gets turned into “Kerry: Draft Likely to Return Under Bush” I’ll never know.

  • Kevin

    How that gets turned into ìKerry: Draft Likely to Return Under Bushî Iíll never know.

    Try this for an explaination;
    A liberal Senator and a liberal Media feeding off each other to do everything and anything to get votes…

    Naaa can’t be, if that was it somebody would blow the whistle on em…. err kinda like that Dan Rather/CBS example of journalistic integrity

  • steven

    Yes, that insidious liberal media was plotting election moves with Senator Rangel in January 2003. Those fiends with their long-range planning!

    So I take it you are all proud supporters of using National Guardsmen and Reservists fighting in Iraq instead of America? There’s nothing like fucking over the men and women that needed college money, am I right?

  • http://www.insignificantthoughts.com Vinny

    Steven, you top yourself with every post.

    I have no sympathy for anyone dumb enough to join the military with disregard for the fact that it might have to soldier at some point.

    It is the military.

    Soldiers must, on occasion, fight.

    You want college money with no obligation? Get a grant.

    Can’t get a grant?

    Get a job.

    But don’t bitch when you join the military and you’re called upon to actually do what those in the military do: soldier.

    Smart people agree with me.

    Others, like you, don’t.

  • pete from astoria

    First of all. The myth that “minorities” are the ones who die most in wars is totally wrong. In Vietnam, the vast majority of soldiers killed were white. (over 80% I believe)This isn’t because minorities didn’t serve with honor, it has to do with the population, and the fact that during Vietnam,whites were already the predominant majority of people who were already in the service prior to the war and to the draft.
    Second. If one is signing up for the armed services for college money, one should think long and hard about the possibilites, and the number one responsibility of being a soldier. That’s like a cop joining the police force because he wants the health and pension benefits. The ones who do will probably come to regret their decision.

  • steven

    Becoming a soldier is indeed not a decision to be taken lightly. Does that go for the National Guard, too? How they could have know they would be policing a colonial territory? Are class divisions in military service are acceptable if the soldiers is dumb and poorl? A touching qualifer, really.

  • http://www.insignificantthoughts.com Vinny

    Steven, did you not take your ADD medication today?

    Let’s stick to the subject you yourself brought up about people getting screwed by joining the military when all they wanted was a college education.

    You can stick to a subject, can you not?

  • steven

    OK, let’s follow the bouncing ball

    Men and women who join the N-a-t-i-o-n-a-l Guard and R-e-s-e-r-v-e-s obviously expect to be called up when needed. Fighting external conflicts is not what they signed up for. But they are stupid fucks for doing so, you say, and you are entitled to that opinion.

    The real subject is class divisions in military service. Care to tackle it?

  • http://www.insignificantthoughts.com Vinny

    Men and women who join the N-a-t-i-o-n-a-l Guard and R-e-s-e-r-v-e-s obviously expect to be called up when needed. Fighting external conflicts is not what they signed up for.

    Definitely a John Kerry ass kisser.

    Fighting whatever conflict the government says they fight is what they sign up for.

    That’s how it works.

    Now your original quote was:

    So I take it you are all proud supporters of using National Guardsmen and Reservists fighting in Iraq instead of America? Thereís nothing like fucking over the men and women that needed college money, am I right?

    So you’re saying that they’re being fucked over because they’re being called to service instead of just being handed a free college education with no strings attached.

    You don’t choose where you serve, but you are under obligation to serve.

    Anyone in the Guard who doesn’t think so is a fucking idiot.

    Anyone like you who thinks they get screwed because the government calls them to serve is a fucking idiot.

    And anyone who joins the military just to get an education is a fucking idiot.

    As for “classes” in the military, who cares?

    It wasn’t the topic of discussion. You have a real issue with staying on topic.

    Don’t worry. I’ll help you.

  • http://www.stageleft.info stageleft

    In January 2003 Rangel brought it up, earlier this year Republican Senator Chuck Hagel of Nebraska brought it up, soldiers in Fort Carson say they’ve been told re-enlist or we’ll send you to Iraq and keep ya there, and Bush has basically already drafted people who have completed their term of service but were not allowed to go home.

    I’m sure there’s more of a point in there other than just the opportunity to put the words “flip-flop” and “John Kerry” in the same post…. what it is?

  • http://www.insignificantthoughts.com Vinny

    Actually, Stageleft, you are very wrong about people being returned to service.

    The people that were called back were called back because they had been given early releases and did not in fact finish their obligations, and they were needed.

    Soldiers in Fort Carson may have been told that, but I don’t see how that equates to a draft.

    The point is that Kerry has mentioned numerous times his fear that the draft would return and then laid it on Bush’s doorstep.

    He has yet to mention that the bill was authored by Democrat Charles Rangel.

  • Alan H.

    Steven, how could you possibly say that a person joining the Reserves is not signing up to fight in external conflicts? The whole point of the Reserves is to have people ready to support and participate in foreign military actions. They don’t need to be on active duty in times of peace, but they are essential in times of war.

  • Kricket

    Wouldn’t that be why they are called the Reserves? It wouldn’t have anything to do with being reserved just in case they are needed?

  • http://www.stageleft.info stageleft

    So there is no stop-loss program that covers active-duty soldiers while they are deployed outside the continental United States in support of Operations Enduring Freedom and Iraqi Freedom Vinny?

    There are no doubt lots of terms that could be used for what soldiers say is happening at Carson. But when you throw away all the fancy terms all you’re left with is “re-enlist or be sent to Iraq”, which is conventiently enough outside the continental United States where the stop-loss program has most certainly been implemented. That’s not a form of conscription? Which is just another word for ?????

    Given where Bush says the U.S. is going in Iraq and Afghanistan, and current U.S. troop committments, a great many of us, as well as a whole bunch of Americans, do in fact believe the draft (or some other word that means the same thing if draft is an unpopular word to use) is where Bush is headed.

    If Kerry does mention the (D) bill of 2003 should he mention the (R)’s that agree with the idea at the same time or just leave them out?

  • http://www.insignificantthoughts.com Vinny

    I have no problem whatsoever with him mentioning both, as long as he stops making it seem like some evil Republican plot.

  • pete from astoria

    I’ll take a shot at class division in the military. Plain and simple, people join the military for different reasons and have different expectations. What I am about to say doesn’t impugn anyone’s patriotism or courage, AND IT ISN’T ABSOLUTE! Minorities (including women) generally sign up as an alternative to college or as a means of attaining a college education or similar benefits. Some join because they lack skills to be competitive in the job market and the military is a place one can learn skills as well as gain discipline and direction. The afore mentioned group tend to seek out positions (many times with the advice of the recruiters)that will have the least “risk” in case of war. This has nothing to do with courage; it has to do with personal beliefs and pragmatism. The military needs tons of people for logistics, maintenance, health/medical, and for food service. No military can survive without these needs being filled. Not everyone wants or can be a killer!
    There is another group of people (minorities and women included)who join because they are “gung-ho”. They usually come from a military family, and they have strong beliefs regarding country, duty, and patriotism. Many people flooded the recruiting stations after the events of 911. Some even gave up lucartive careers (Pat Tillman). These are the type of people who sign up for the marine corp. special forces, green berets, navy seals, etc. They do this knowing that they will be among the first to be “dropped into the shit” in time of war. These soldiers tend to be mostly white, mostly male, and mostly from the southern region of the country. (AGAIN NO ABSOLUTES!)They tend to make the military a career, or they tend to go into law enforcement or a similar career after they complete their service. Of course people who enlist to get college funds will not be happy when thay are sent to war. In their hearts and minds, that’s not what they signed up for! It’s not unlike the private sector, where if one takes a job simply based on the fact that they need the money won’t be as happy nor as satisfied as those who took the job because it is the career path they chose to pursue. The military is a microcosm of society. Everyone has different needs and motives. The bottom line is that at this particular point in time, we all have free will and we all make choices that we have to deal with.

  • steven

    I’m saying they are being fucked over because they are being ordered to do things beyond the original scope of their organization. Technically they do anything they are told, just like an employer can technically make you clean his toilet with your toothbrush.

    But in your zealous haste to attack college-fund entitlement issue, you say ‘fuck you’ to the servicemen and the spirit of the organizations themselves. Your callousness once again rears its ugly head.

    As a reminder, the words “rich” and “poor” appear in the first lines of this very page. Sounds like class is the issue after all.

  • http://www.insignificantthoughts.com Vinny

    God Steven, you’re so stupid.

    The words are Rangel’s, not mine moron.

    As for zealous hatred, well, have you exhibited anything but in the two months you’ve been commenting here?

  • steven

    And Rangel’s words were the topic. Thank you.

    Would you prefer an echo chamber? Greek chorus? Someone needs to point out jackassery when it rears its ugly head…

  • http://www.insignificantthoughts.com Vinny

    Yawn.

    Illiterate.

    Someone obviously didn’t read the post that this is attached to.

    Wanna read about Jackassery?

    Look no further than Steven.

  • steven

    RTFA? Better than you. Your “bulk of soldiers” was “30 percent of soldiers” in the article.

    Quick, scrabble for another insult!

  • http://www.insignificantthoughts.com Vinny

    Steven says:

    And Rangelís words were the topic. Thank you.

    The third line of the post Steven commented on says:

    The push to reinstate the draft was started by Charlie Rangel (D – NY)

    I think that says enough.

    Thanks.

  • steven

    Can’t handle the truth, eh? I’ll accept that.

  • Alan H.

    A few thoughts:

    Stageleft- You are indeed right that there is a stop-loss program in effect now. My cousin and my friend have been stop-lossed (for lack of a better term) and are heading back to Iraq for a second time. However, this is not a surprise to either of them, or any enlistee who read the contract. It clearly states the possibility of a stop-loss program extending their service. They don’t consider it a draft, just fulfilling their oiginal commitment.

    Pete- You did a great job explaining the motivation of those who join the military. My aforementioned cousin is one of the gung-ho types. My friend is one of the people who lack skills to compete in the job market. Both are white. Both enjoy serving and both are not happy to go back, but they accept that this is what they committed to.

    Steven- I am going to stop replying to your comments. You are not making any sense and you are wasting bandwith.

  • steven

    The opinion of a soldier who uses phrases like “Senator Flipper” means nothing to me. Sorry.

  • oakleytexas

    it’s amusing to me…at my recruiting station they have no problems getting recruits…and from what the recruiters tell us it’s that way all over San Antonio and Texas…and all the guys that are in the DEP with me know that we’ll probably end up in the desert and don’t have a problem with it…

  • night heron

    What a liar its no wonder i dont trust these liberals they are crooks and liars and what a dweeb he is i just have quit watching the news media and i trust the swift-boat vets rather then these reptiles:mad:

  • steven

    Now for the real point of the bill, lest it get shot into orbit by spin:

    “The lawmaker has said his measure could make members of Congress more reluctant to authorize military action. The Korean War veteran has accused President Bush and some fellow lawmakers of being too eager to go to war.”

    You’ve just read a good example of the proposals that Congresspeople make from time to time that have no chance of passing, but look good to constituents.

  • Alan H.

    I seem to remember Senator Flipper attacking the Vice President and the Speaker of the House for his perception that they were using fear to win votes for the President. His comments today are clearly an attempt to scare the American public into not voting for the President. I guess he changed his position on this too.

  • http://www.insignificantthoughts.com/ Vinny

    The real point of the bill was to have the rich white folks have their kids go off to war. He said so himself.

    So if Kerry is worried about the draft being reinstated, then he’s looking at the wrong party.

    See Steven, it’s really simple. Even you can understand it!

  • http://www.robertkbrown.com/ RKB

    I don’t know how they come up with these headlines, Vinny. Here’s the third paragraph:

    Answering a question about the draft that had been posed at a forum with voters, Kerry said: “If George Bush were to be re-elected, given the way he has gone about this war and given his avoidance of responsibility in North Korea and Iran and other places, is it possible? I can’t tell you.”

    How that gets turned into “Kerry: Draft Likely to Return Under Bush” I’ll never know.

  • Kevin

    How that gets turned into ìKerry: Draft Likely to Return Under Bushî Iíll never know.

    Try this for an explaination;
    A liberal Senator and a liberal Media feeding off each other to do everything and anything to get votes…

    Naaa can’t be, if that was it somebody would blow the whistle on em…. err kinda like that Dan Rather/CBS example of journalistic integrity

  • steven

    Yes, that insidious liberal media was plotting election moves with Senator Rangel in January 2003. Those fiends with their long-range planning!

    So I take it you are all proud supporters of using National Guardsmen and Reservists fighting in Iraq instead of America? There’s nothing like fucking over the men and women that needed college money, am I right?

  • http://www.insignificantthoughts.com/ Vinny

    Steven, you top yourself with every post.

    I have no sympathy for anyone dumb enough to join the military with disregard for the fact that it might have to soldier at some point.

    It is the military.

    Soldiers must, on occasion, fight.

    You want college money with no obligation? Get a grant.

    Can’t get a grant?

    Get a job.

    But don’t bitch when you join the military and you’re called upon to actually do what those in the military do: soldier.

    Smart people agree with me.

    Others, like you, don’t.

  • pete from astoria

    First of all. The myth that “minorities” are the ones who die most in wars is totally wrong. In Vietnam, the vast majority of soldiers killed were white. (over 80% I believe)This isn’t because minorities didn’t serve with honor, it has to do with the population, and the fact that during Vietnam,whites were already the predominant majority of people who were already in the service prior to the war and to the draft.
    Second. If one is signing up for the armed services for college money, one should think long and hard about the possibilites, and the number one responsibility of being a soldier. That’s like a cop joining the police force because he wants the health and pension benefits. The ones who do will probably come to regret their decision.

  • steven

    Becoming a soldier is indeed not a decision to be taken lightly. Does that go for the National Guard, too? How they could have know they would be policing a colonial territory? Are class divisions in military service are acceptable if the soldiers is dumb and poorl? A touching qualifer, really.

  • http://www.insignificantthoughts.com/ Vinny

    Steven, did you not take your ADD medication today?

    Let’s stick to the subject you yourself brought up about people getting screwed by joining the military when all they wanted was a college education.

    You can stick to a subject, can you not?

  • steven

    OK, let’s follow the bouncing ball

    Men and women who join the N-a-t-i-o-n-a-l Guard and R-e-s-e-r-v-e-s obviously expect to be called up when needed. Fighting external conflicts is not what they signed up for. But they are stupid fucks for doing so, you say, and you are entitled to that opinion.

    The real subject is class divisions in military service. Care to tackle it?

  • http://www.insignificantthoughts.com/ Vinny

    Men and women who join the N-a-t-i-o-n-a-l Guard and R-e-s-e-r-v-e-s obviously expect to be called up when needed. Fighting external conflicts is not what they signed up for.

    Definitely a John Kerry ass kisser.

    Fighting whatever conflict the government says they fight is what they sign up for.

    That’s how it works.

    Now your original quote was:

    So I take it you are all proud supporters of using National Guardsmen and Reservists fighting in Iraq instead of America? Thereís nothing like fucking over the men and women that needed college money, am I right?

    So you’re saying that they’re being fucked over because they’re being called to service instead of just being handed a free college education with no strings attached.

    You don’t choose where you serve, but you are under obligation to serve.

    Anyone in the Guard who doesn’t think so is a fucking idiot.

    Anyone like you who thinks they get screwed because the government calls them to serve is a fucking idiot.

    And anyone who joins the military just to get an education is a fucking idiot.

    As for “classes” in the military, who cares?

    It wasn’t the topic of discussion. You have a real issue with staying on topic.

    Don’t worry. I’ll help you.

  • http://www.stageleft.info/ stageleft

    In January 2003 Rangel brought it up, earlier this year Republican Senator Chuck Hagel of Nebraska brought it up, soldiers in Fort Carson say they’ve been told re-enlist or we’ll send you to Iraq and keep ya there, and Bush has basically already drafted people who have completed their term of service but were not allowed to go home.

    I’m sure there’s more of a point in there other than just the opportunity to put the words “flip-flop” and “John Kerry” in the same post…. what it is?

  • http://www.insignificantthoughts.com/ Vinny

    Actually, Stageleft, you are very wrong about people being returned to service.

    The people that were called back were called back because they had been given early releases and did not in fact finish their obligations, and they were needed.

    Soldiers in Fort Carson may have been told that, but I don’t see how that equates to a draft.

    The point is that Kerry has mentioned numerous times his fear that the draft would return and then laid it on Bush’s doorstep.

    He has yet to mention that the bill was authored by Democrat Charles Rangel.

  • Alan H.

    Steven, how could you possibly say that a person joining the Reserves is not signing up to fight in external conflicts? The whole point of the Reserves is to have people ready to support and participate in foreign military actions. They don’t need to be on active duty in times of peace, but they are essential in times of war.

  • Kricket

    Wouldn’t that be why they are called the Reserves? It wouldn’t have anything to do with being reserved just in case they are needed?

  • http://www.stageleft.info/ stageleft

    So there is no stop-loss program that covers active-duty soldiers while they are deployed outside the continental United States in support of Operations Enduring Freedom and Iraqi Freedom Vinny?

    There are no doubt lots of terms that could be used for what soldiers say is happening at Carson. But when you throw away all the fancy terms all you’re left with is “re-enlist or be sent to Iraq”, which is conventiently enough outside the continental United States where the stop-loss program has most certainly been implemented. That’s not a form of conscription? Which is just another word for ?????

    Given where Bush says the U.S. is going in Iraq and Afghanistan, and current U.S. troop committments, a great many of us, as well as a whole bunch of Americans, do in fact believe the draft (or some other word that means the same thing if draft is an unpopular word to use) is where Bush is headed.

    If Kerry does mention the (D) bill of 2003 should he mention the (R)’s that agree with the idea at the same time or just leave them out?

  • http://www.insignificantthoughts.com/ Vinny

    I have no problem whatsoever with him mentioning both, as long as he stops making it seem like some evil Republican plot.

  • pete from astoria

    I’ll take a shot at class division in the military. Plain and simple, people join the military for different reasons and have different expectations. What I am about to say doesn’t impugn anyone’s patriotism or courage, AND IT ISN’T ABSOLUTE! Minorities (including women) generally sign up as an alternative to college or as a means of attaining a college education or similar benefits. Some join because they lack skills to be competitive in the job market and the military is a place one can learn skills as well as gain discipline and direction. The afore mentioned group tend to seek out positions (many times with the advice of the recruiters)that will have the least “risk” in case of war. This has nothing to do with courage; it has to do with personal beliefs and pragmatism. The military needs tons of people for logistics, maintenance, health/medical, and for food service. No military can survive without these needs being filled. Not everyone wants or can be a killer!
    There is another group of people (minorities and women included)who join because they are “gung-ho”. They usually come from a military family, and they have strong beliefs regarding country, duty, and patriotism. Many people flooded the recruiting stations after the events of 911. Some even gave up lucartive careers (Pat Tillman). These are the type of people who sign up for the marine corp. special forces, green berets, navy seals, etc. They do this knowing that they will be among the first to be “dropped into the shit” in time of war. These soldiers tend to be mostly white, mostly male, and mostly from the southern region of the country. (AGAIN NO ABSOLUTES!)They tend to make the military a career, or they tend to go into law enforcement or a similar career after they complete their service. Of course people who enlist to get college funds will not be happy when thay are sent to war. In their hearts and minds, that’s not what they signed up for! It’s not unlike the private sector, where if one takes a job simply based on the fact that they need the money won’t be as happy nor as satisfied as those who took the job because it is the career path they chose to pursue. The military is a microcosm of society. Everyone has different needs and motives. The bottom line is that at this particular point in time, we all have free will and we all make choices that we have to deal with.

  • steven

    I’m saying they are being fucked over because they are being ordered to do things beyond the original scope of their organization. Technically they do anything they are told, just like an employer can technically make you clean his toilet with your toothbrush.

    But in your zealous haste to attack college-fund entitlement issue, you say ‘fuck you’ to the servicemen and the spirit of the organizations themselves. Your callousness once again rears its ugly head.

    As a reminder, the words “rich” and “poor” appear in the first lines of this very page. Sounds like class is the issue after all.

  • http://www.insignificantthoughts.com/ Vinny

    God Steven, you’re so stupid.

    The words are Rangel’s, not mine moron.

    As for zealous hatred, well, have you exhibited anything but in the two months you’ve been commenting here?

  • steven

    And Rangel’s words were the topic. Thank you.

    Would you prefer an echo chamber? Greek chorus? Someone needs to point out jackassery when it rears its ugly head…

  • http://www.insignificantthoughts.com/ Vinny

    Yawn.

    Illiterate.

    Someone obviously didn’t read the post that this is attached to.

    Wanna read about Jackassery?

    Look no further than Steven.

  • steven

    RTFA? Better than you. Your “bulk of soldiers” was “30 percent of soldiers” in the article.

    Quick, scrabble for another insult!

  • http://www.insignificantthoughts.com/ Vinny

    Steven says:

    And Rangelís words were the topic. Thank you.

    The third line of the post Steven commented on says:

    The push to reinstate the draft was started by Charlie Rangel (D – NY)

    I think that says enough.

    Thanks.

  • steven

    Can’t handle the truth, eh? I’ll accept that.

  • Alan H.

    A few thoughts:

    Stageleft- You are indeed right that there is a stop-loss program in effect now. My cousin and my friend have been stop-lossed (for lack of a better term) and are heading back to Iraq for a second time. However, this is not a surprise to either of them, or any enlistee who read the contract. It clearly states the possibility of a stop-loss program extending their service. They don’t consider it a draft, just fulfilling their oiginal commitment.

    Pete- You did a great job explaining the motivation of those who join the military. My aforementioned cousin is one of the gung-ho types. My friend is one of the people who lack skills to compete in the job market. Both are white. Both enjoy serving and both are not happy to go back, but they accept that this is what they committed to.

    Steven- I am going to stop replying to your comments. You are not making any sense and you are wasting bandwith.

  • steven

    The opinion of a soldier who uses phrases like “Senator Flipper” means nothing to me. Sorry.

  • oakleytexas

    it’s amusing to me…at my recruiting station they have no problems getting recruits…and from what the recruiters tell us it’s that way all over San Antonio and Texas…and all the guys that are in the DEP with me know that we’ll probably end up in the desert and don’t have a problem with it…

  • night heron

    What a liar its no wonder i dont trust these liberals they are crooks and liars and what a dweeb he is i just have quit watching the news media and i trust the swift-boat vets rather then these reptiles:mad: