Mar 29 2005
Just thinking…
When did food and water become medical treatment?
Think about it… The Schindlers are barred from even swabbing Terri’s lips with a cotton swab if it has any kind of water on it. They even had a debate this weekend over whether or not to allow Terri to receive Holy Communion on Easter Sunday.
The ruling by the brilliant Judge Greer, as far as I know, only precludes the feeding tube from begin inserted because, supposedly, that’s what Terri did / didn’t / did / didn’t / did want.
So I ask again, when did food and water become medical treatment? If the ruling was that the tube not be reinserted, why would even giving Terri a glass of water be considered a violation of that ruling?
Unless of course the objective was not to honor her wishes, but to kill her.
A subtle but important difference.
Choose life.
March 29th, 2005 at 8:30 am
It is my business when someone is being tortured in a bed in a hospice because of the loose memory of her husband.
If you can stand by and watch that and throw it onto some clinically sterile legal explanation, go right ahead.
I value people’s lives over pieces of paper.
You choose paper; I’ll choose life.
March 29th, 2005 at 8:52 am
I won’t choose life for a convicted criminal who has been sentenced to death by a jury of his/her peers. I WILL choose life for an innocent disabled woman who was sentenced to death by a ‘judge’ who can’t follow state law.
And FYI, Vinnie has been supportive of Terri’s fight for life LONG before our President ever became involved. This doesn’t have to do with politics - it has to do with life.
March 29th, 2005 at 9:03 am
Sorry Vinny, but I must get my 2 cents in here.
Sirrios why are you comparing a death penalty case to Terri Schaivo? That is apples and oranges. The death row inmate is convicted by a jury of his peers for comitting a crime that carried the death penalty. And last time I checked, the death row inmate is afforded all types of appeals. That is how we find out about cases of someone being wrongly convicted you idiot.
What exactly is your argument with Vinny? I have yet to see any signs of intelligence.
March 29th, 2005 at 9:08 am
You should go look at the dates Vinnie started posting on Terri. It goes well in to last year. Check the archives. I first heard about Terri by reading Vinnie’s site almost two years ago. Long before the president became involved.
If a convicted criminal’s lawyer comes up and files an appeal based on new evidence that may prove innocence it is taken seriously and looked at. And that person gets every possible appeal he/she is entitled to and more. Appeals for Terri aren’t even entertained by the courts, instead just thrown out. A convicted criminal is put to death by a jury of his/her peers. Terri was sentenced by a judge - no jury for her. A death row inmate is put to death in the most humane way possible - in most states a lethal injection putting them to sleep first, then the poison and death is in a matter of minutes. No prolonged suffering for upwards of two weeks in a torturous manner. For those people that have been exonorated of their convictions while on Death Row, good for them. However, Terri never killed anyone. She was never convicted of any crime. Yet she is treated with more inhumanity than we treat death row inmates, than we treat a stray dog.
Yes, I believe in exceptions to every rule. As far as the death penalty goes, I go by ‘an eye for an eye’. Who’s eye did Terri poke out?
March 29th, 2005 at 9:49 am
Of course it coincides with W’s entering into the matter. He did so when the feeding tube was removed!
God, you’re stupid.
As for the other stuff, go back and re-read some archives before you make generalizations about my opinions on anything. You look stupid.
Oh, and one more thing… I hope to God that when you get out of UNC Med School, you aren’t allowed anywhere near a hospital.
Ugh.
March 29th, 2005 at 10:09 am
Vinny has been pro-life as long as I have been reading his posts. It seems you haven’t been reading or even taking the time to check before you open your pie hole. Sounds like UNC Medical School is producing another Doctor Death here.
March 29th, 2005 at 10:45 am
If it’s the same UNC that I know from Nebraska (where I lived for 10 years) then he’s not learning a damned thing. UNC is the same hospital that told me there was nothing they could do for my spinal fracture. And here I’m finding out five years later there is a very common surgery I could have had done that would have saved me years of pain. Now it’s too late to do anything for it. And I blame UNC for not doing their research to treat my injury. So yeah, if he’s at the same UNC that I’m thinking of, then pray you don’t ever have him for a doc.
March 29th, 2005 at 11:02 am
Vinny,
My understanding is that giving her water would actually make it worse. Emphasis mine.
(Source)
So if the ruling is that Terri would not have wanted to continue living if it meant being supported by artificial means — which is what a surgically inserted feeding tube is — then one would hope that her hospice wouldn’t actively look for ways to prolong her death.
March 29th, 2005 at 11:07 am
Then they should’ve allowed people to try to feed her the minute the tube was taken out. Instead, they argued against even the most basic things like Holy Communion until they gave up and caved to public pressure.
That just makes no sense.
As Ralph Nader put it, the ruling wasn’t to remove the tube in the minds of the people enforcing the ruling, it was to make sure she died.
As for dehydration not being painful, if you buy that (and it would surprise me if you did), I never want to hear one more story about hunger, starvation, or dehydration in fucking sub-sahara Africa ever again because, according to experts, their life of starvation and thirst is quite comfy.
March 29th, 2005 at 11:13 am
It depends if you believe Terri is cognizant and aware of herself. If, as Schiavo’s doctor’s claim, she doesn’t feel a thing, then I can’t imagine dehydration or starvation is painful. That’s quite different than starving a cognizant living thing, which does feel pain.
I can’t understand witholding oral feeding, though.
March 29th, 2005 at 11:16 am
Goes back to what I was saying: Was the intention to remove her from artificial support (in this case the feeding tube) or was the intention to starve her until she dies?
March 29th, 2005 at 11:20 am
I was under the impression that she couldn’t chew or swallow her own food. That the feeding tube was required, specifically, because she could not receive the necessary nutrients to maintain life without it.
Obviously, if she can eat and drink, then give her food and water. But why hasn’t she been eating and drinking every day for the past ten years?
My quote above came specifically after a discussion about removal of feeding tubes as an end-of-life decision, and has nothing to do with people who are starving because THERE IS NO FOOD as opposed to somebody who is starving because she cannot chew or swallow.
March 29th, 2005 at 11:25 am
There’s speculation on both sides: that she can and can’t take liquid, although I don’t think solid food is an option.
March 29th, 2005 at 11:26 am
RKB,
Obviously I’m no doctor, but it’s been argued that with minor therapy (which she has thus far been denied) she would be able to swallow on her own.
March 29th, 2005 at 1:13 pm
I keep going back to the legal docs.
Here’s the PDF that details the medical evidence — gathered over a number of years — that states she would not be able to consume enough (if any at all) nutrition orally to maintain life.
March 29th, 2005 at 5:57 pm
There are affidavits by several nurses that have cared for Terri stating that Terri enjoyed being spoon fed jello and if I remember correctly pudding. M.Schiavo has permitted NO physical therapy to see how far her ability to swallow extended. he has allowed NO testing.
And the courts are blindly looking at 15 years worth of information, especially if they are only taking 15 minutes to review it all.
March 29th, 2005 at 5:57 pm
It still all boils down to this: there is no absolute proof of what Terri Schiavo would have wanted. What we do know is that she was a devout Catholic, and this goes against the teachings of the Catholic church. For these reasons, I have felt that the court should have erred on the side of caution and not allowed the death in this manner.
March 29th, 2005 at 6:00 pm
For those saying that Terri is not aware of herself or of any pain, WHY is she being administered morphin to make her more comfortable?? What would it matter if she is as brain dead as M.Schiavo claims?
March 31st, 2005 at 3:19 pm
This petition was just sent to me and I wasn’t sure where to add it here. I thought this might be the right place. Petition - Judge GreerTake a look and sign it if you wish.
March 31st, 2005 at 4:27 pm
Already did, not that I hold much stock in online petitions.
March 31st, 2005 at 4:39 pm
I know, same here, Kricket, but figured what the heck. Even if it does nothing and he still sits in his black robes, he might know, heck he probably will know this is going around (as well there might be others) and hope against hope he might resign. Also, I just heard that the Pope is very ill with a high temperature, possible urinary infection involving his kidneys. It sounds like it is time to be praying for him too.