Disingenuous Liars

It hasn’t been long since I went to elementary school. I’m 29 years old, and yet I remember it like it was yesterday. The teacher’s union (in this case the UFT, headed by Randy Weingarten (who I consider a poison that all teachers are just all-too-willing to drink from) has a pet gripe about the school system, and it’s class size.

Now, I’m no rocket scientist here, but let’s think about that complaint. Juan Gonzalez, shill for every union and liberal cause under the son, writes the following in the New York Daily News:

Forget all the nonsense you’ve heard about what ails our public schools.

Good education begins with class size.

The smaller the class, the easier it is for teachers to teach and for children to learn.

This has been proven over and over again, yet Mayor Bloomberg, who fancies himself the education mayor, can’t seem to add two plus two.

This claim would be funny if it weren’t so ridiculous. So far, under the tutelage of Randy Weingarten, students in New York City Public Schools now have to endure the following idiocy:

1. No more blackboards: Teachers are not allowed to use blackboards and stay in front of the class and “lecture.”

2. Carpets for reading: Little carpets for each kid on the floor so kids can go group reading together.

3. Tables: No more individual desks. Now students are forced to sit around round tables because lining them up in rows separates them and stops them from being able to work collaboratively.

4. No more hanging of good work outside on the bulletin boards: it stigmatizes the bad kids.

And so on, and so on. All of the above measures were meant to improve class performance based on studies done over the course of 10 years.

The result?

Nothing.

There are no tangible results to show for all those warm and fuzzy changes.

So now what’s the next step? Juan “the shill” Gonzalez informs us:

Nearly two years ago, the state Court of Appeals – in deciding the landmark Campaign for Fiscal Equity lawsuit – ruled that state officials failed to adequately fund a decent education for New York City public school pupils.

In its decision upholding a lower court ruling, the Court of Appeals made clear that, “holding other variables constant, smaller class sizes in the earliest grades correlate with better test results during those years and afterwards.”

From kindergarten through third grade, the courts found more than half of New York City schoolchildren are in classes of 26 or more, and tens of thousands are in classes of more than 30 – excessive class size that affects learning.

So now we have more studies. Class size is tied to student success. Just for reference, so were the numbered points above, but I digress. The argument is brutally fallacious. Why?

The average class size in the schools I went to growing up were as follows:

Holy Family Catholic School (Grades K-3): 34 kids
Public School 114: 37 kids
IS 68: 35 kids
South Shore High School: 30 kids

Since we’re talking about elementary school, let’s keep the subject on track and talk about my two elementary schools. By modern standards, I should’ve failed out of elementary school and been a gangsta or something because my classes were huge. Instead, I did really well in school.

What’s that you say? There’s always a kid that does well even in a group of bad ones?

Well, yeah, but as a whole we did really well.

People were never left back, and I travelled with the same kids from Kindergarten through 3rd grade and 4th grade through 6th grade and every single one of them graduated, and we were by far the largest class (other classes averaged 29-32).

Class size is not the issue. Is it an issue? Sure it is, and one that should be addressed. But since they’ve tried everything else, they’re pinning the failure of our public schools on the size of the class now. Had they made this argument 20 years ago when I was in elementary school, that a class of 37 can’t possibly learn, people would’ve been laughing their ass off.

I’ll go Mr. Gonzalez and Ms. Weingarten one better. Let’s say class size plummets by some miracle. In the year 2008, class size is down to 1 teacher to 5 students. Kids are still failing.

Then what?

1:1?

Someone needs to look inward and examine the reasons and leave the misleading numbers out of it. I learned in classes that would be considered abominations by today’s standards. Obviously size doesn’t matter.

Source: NY Daily News

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http://www.docb-t5.blogspot.com DocB

Actually, class size IS an issue. They need to prove somehow that smaller class sizes are more effective. Why? Well – you need to look at the ‘other agenda’.
Smaller class sizes require more teachers to teach the masses. More teachers require more taxpayer funding. More taxpayer funding for more teachers equals more dues for the teachers unions. This is why the unions wholeheartedly endorse smaller class sizes. With more funds pouring into union coffers, they have more to work with on thier political agenda
http://www.dogsnot.net gordon the magnificent

Looks like the “Child left Behind” beat me to the honor of being the first to comment on a great post. Apparently reading comprehension was not his forte, I can’t belive he read that post, in it’s entirety, and still had to ask “what do YOU think the cause for the failure is, Vinny?”

But the retard did hit on one good point. It’s also my belief that parents today do not spend enough time with their children. I further believe that public schools have been liberalized and lack discipline and agree – the classes are too large.
http://nonannystate.blogspot.com The Other Mike S

Money talks; Bullshit walks.

We need to give parents the ability to spend our tax dollars as they see fit, via vouchers. The public school unions have for too long said the only way to fix the problem is via smaller classes – thus more dues-paying members. Whenever they’re asked for ways to measure school or teacher excellence (guffaw) the finger is always pointed elsewhere.

Let private entities compete for the public funds. We all know the cream will rise to the top, and the shitty public schools will be shut down for lack of funding.
http://www.dogsnot.net gordon the magnificent

Sirrios,
While you’re demanding numbers from Mike, how about you cough some up supporting your own line of BS.
http://nonannystate.blogspot.com The Other Mike S

OK, how does the “Top Performing College Preparatory Schools Ranked by SAT I Test Scores” grab ya? 2004 data.

http://www.prepreview.com/english/us/rank/sat.htm

Check the far right hand column. It identifies the school as public or private. Out of the 31 top schools, only 3 are public schools. Less than 10%.

In regards to what happens to the teachers: The question presumes that the teachers would not be able to survive in a competitive atmosphere like the rest of us working stiffs. The answer is simple: Perform, stay employed. Don’t perform, find other work.

The way the current school systems are designed, you are rewarded for length of service (tenure), not excellence. How crazy is that? Like it or not, our schools are supposed to be producing a product. That product is educated, ready-for-the-world young adults. The public system is getting handed it’s ass by the private system.

Private schools, and even worse, schools run by corporations are about the worse possible thing we could do.

Clearly, the data I provided shows that to be nothing but gibberish. Show me data to the contrary.

I wrote this over a year ago:

By raising expectations – for kids, their parents, and for the schools – we will raise the competence of our children, and our society as a whole. Lowering expectations, such as they’ve done in Houston, only churns out more and more mediocre, unqualified workers. In their attempt to help the self esteem of the kids, they are actually setting them up for failure.
http://tinyurl.com/7nmd7

Our public school system just is not working. We need to change our paradigm to pattern a system that works.
http://www.linoge.net/weblog/ Linoge

Private schools, and even worse, schools run by corporations are about the worse possible thing we could do.

Well, that is the largest load of complete and utter dren I have heard in a very long time. You really ought to start expanding your non-existant database. For example: http://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/2002/analyses/private/sa03.asp , or maybe http://www.allianceforschoolchoice.org/_DOCs/grad_rates_milwaukee.pdf (only applicable to Milwaukee, sure, but whatever), or maybe http://www.capenet.org/facts.html .

*sighs* I hate intentional stupidity…
Belf!!!

As a Speech Therapist in an elementary school in the South Bronx, I feel the need to put in my buck fifty. First of all, class size is irrelevant. Look at how big some “lecture” classes are in college. It’s the nature of the kids in the class that matters. Like Vinny, when I was in elementary school there were at least 25 kids in my class each year. Like a pack, we traveled together all through elementary school until we graduated in the 6th grade. Nobody got left back and the only time the group changed was when somebody moved away.
That doesn’t happen now and I believe it has nothing to do with class size or No Child Left Behind. The problem now is that general ed classes no longer contain just general ed students. Learning disabled, emotionally disturbed, speech impaired, hearing impaired, vision impaired, etc, they’re all mixed in there. When the NYC school system embraced the idea of inclusion, which is mixing special ed students in with the general ed population and providing supports services for those who need them, that’s when the problems started. Add to that the fact that the state keeps making the standardized tests harder and harder every year and there you have it.
So can we please put the whole class size issue to rest?
http://www.hauntedparsonage.us/blog/ Chuck

The schools are collapsing under the weight of all the inclusion, diversity, accomodation, mainstreaming, conformity, you-name-it-we’ll-try-it bullshit of the past 40 years of Benjamin Spock-inspired psychobabble!

Thirty years ago, when I was in school, our typical elementary class size was 33. Anywhere from 30 – 35 was considered normal. For that class, there was one teacher in the classroom. Up through third grade, that one teacher handled everything except health, some science experiments, and library time. Every other week or so, a reading specialist came in for an hour or so to help those who were falling behind. From fourth grade on, we started having teachers who were specialists, so Mrs. X would teach math to all of the 5th grade classes, and Mr. Z would teach all the science classes, and Miss Y would teach all the reading classes and so on.

Jump forward twenty five years, to when my children were in school. If a class had more than 23 students, it was cause for panic. For every two teachers, there was a shared assistant, plus roaming specialists for math, reading, science, music, computers, etc. I think the number of teachers was les than the number of assistants and specialists.

What were they doing then that made it different from today?

Let’s see:
The teacher isn’t allowed to enforce any serious discipline. When I grew up, corporal punishment was still in effect in the schools. Mrs. Stricklane had a paddle hanging in her office, which I realized later in life was a cricket bat. I felt it once, after I was in a fight while in line waiting to come into school. If you were smart, you didn’t want to feel it twice.
Classes were segregated bsed on the students’ skills and talents. Horrors! They actually dared to admit that there were differences between the students’ learning abilities. (as oppposed to diversity) Students who could learn more quickly got extra work, because the class wasn’t waiting for the learning disabled child to grasp the basic concpet that the rest of the class got 15 minutes ago. That single reading specialist could spend most of her time with the students who needed her most, so the teacher was allowed to actually teach.
Another horror – regimented activity. When we arrived at school, we had to wait eitehr outside, or if the whether was bad, in the main corridor. You went to your classroom together in the morning. You left together in the afternoon. You walked (not marched) to and from lunch and P.E. together.
You were expected to perform. Mrs. Strickland, or one of her assistants, made a point of calling the parents of any child who had a failing grade in any subject when the report cards came out.
Teachers stuck with the basics. I’ve seen the tests that teachers are screaming about today, regarding the No Child Left Behind act. I think we could have passed the 4th grade test in early 3rd grade, and a sixth grade education would probably have been enough for today’s 8th grade test. Today, schools are too busy teaching all the social bits and pieces, making sure our kids know that it’s okay to use a condom, but it’s not okay for Mom to light up a cigarette, and all the other crap that’s filtering through the schools.

My kids are old enough now to appreciate that my wife and I accepted no excuses when it came to schoolwork. Some of the people of my generation never got that point.

-cjb-
http://www.docb-t5.blogspot.com/ DocB

Actually, class size IS an issue. They need to prove somehow that smaller class sizes are more effective. Why? Well – you need to look at the ‘other agenda’.
Smaller class sizes require more teachers to teach the masses. More teachers require more taxpayer funding. More taxpayer funding for more teachers equals more dues for the teachers unions. This is why the unions wholeheartedly endorse smaller class sizes. With more funds pouring into union coffers, they have more to work with on thier political agenda
http://www.dogsnot.net/ gordon the magnificent

Looks like the “Child left Behind” beat me to the honor of being the first to comment on a great post. Apparently reading comprehension was not his forte, I can’t belive he read that post, in it’s entirety, and still had to ask “what do YOU think the cause for the failure is, Vinny?”

But the retard did hit on one good point. It’s also my belief that parents today do not spend enough time with their children. I further believe that public schools have been liberalized and lack discipline and agree – the classes are too large.
http://nonannystate.blogspot.com/ The Other Mike S

Money talks; Bullshit walks.

We need to give parents the ability to spend our tax dollars as they see fit, via vouchers. The public school unions have for too long said the only way to fix the problem is via smaller classes – thus more dues-paying members. Whenever they’re asked for ways to measure school or teacher excellence (guffaw) the finger is always pointed elsewhere.

Let private entities compete for the public funds. We all know the cream will rise to the top, and the shitty public schools will be shut down for lack of funding.
http://www.dogsnot.net/ gordon the magnificent

Sirrios,
While you’re demanding numbers from Mike, how about you cough some up supporting your own line of BS.
http://nonannystate.blogspot.com/ The Other Mike S

OK, how does the “Top Performing College Preparatory Schools Ranked by SAT I Test Scores” grab ya? 2004 data.

http://www.prepreview.com/english/us/rank/sat.htm

Check the far right hand column. It identifies the school as public or private. Out of the 31 top schools, only 3 are public schools. Less than 10%.

In regards to what happens to the teachers: The question presumes that the teachers would not be able to survive in a competitive atmosphere like the rest of us working stiffs. The answer is simple: Perform, stay employed. Don’t perform, find other work.

The way the current school systems are designed, you are rewarded for length of service (tenure), not excellence. How crazy is that? Like it or not, our schools are supposed to be producing a product. That product is educated, ready-for-the-world young adults. The public system is getting handed it’s ass by the private system.

Private schools, and even worse, schools run by corporations are about the worse possible thing we could do.

Clearly, the data I provided shows that to be nothing but gibberish. Show me data to the contrary.

I wrote this over a year ago:

By raising expectations – for kids, their parents, and for the schools – we will raise the competence of our children, and our society as a whole. Lowering expectations, such as they’ve done in Houston, only churns out more and more mediocre, unqualified workers. In their attempt to help the self esteem of the kids, they are actually setting them up for failure.
http://tinyurl.com/7nmd7

Our public school system just is not working. We need to change our paradigm to pattern a system that works.
http://www.linoge.net/weblog/ Linoge

Private schools, and even worse, schools run by corporations are about the worse possible thing we could do.

Well, that is the largest load of complete and utter dren I have heard in a very long time. You really ought to start expanding your non-existant database. For example: http://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/2002/analyses/private/sa03.asp , or maybe http://www.allianceforschoolchoice.org/_DOCs/grad_rates_milwaukee.pdf (only applicable to Milwaukee, sure, but whatever), or maybe http://www.capenet.org/facts.html .

*sighs* I hate intentional stupidity…
Belf!!!

As a Speech Therapist in an elementary school in the South Bronx, I feel the need to put in my buck fifty. First of all, class size is irrelevant. Look at how big some “lecture” classes are in college. It’s the nature of the kids in the class that matters. Like Vinny, when I was in elementary school there were at least 25 kids in my class each year. Like a pack, we traveled together all through elementary school until we graduated in the 6th grade. Nobody got left back and the only time the group changed was when somebody moved away.
That doesn’t happen now and I believe it has nothing to do with class size or No Child Left Behind. The problem now is that general ed classes no longer contain just general ed students. Learning disabled, emotionally disturbed, speech impaired, hearing impaired, vision impaired, etc, they’re all mixed in there. When the NYC school system embraced the idea of inclusion, which is mixing special ed students in with the general ed population and providing supports services for those who need them, that’s when the problems started. Add to that the fact that the state keeps making the standardized tests harder and harder every year and there you have it.
So can we please put the whole class size issue to rest?
http://www.hauntedparsonage.us/blog/ Chuck

The schools are collapsing under the weight of all the inclusion, diversity, accomodation, mainstreaming, conformity, you-name-it-we’ll-try-it bullshit of the past 40 years of Benjamin Spock-inspired psychobabble!

Thirty years ago, when I was in school, our typical elementary class size was 33. Anywhere from 30 – 35 was considered normal. For that class, there was one teacher in the classroom. Up through third grade, that one teacher handled everything except health, some science experiments, and library time. Every other week or so, a reading specialist came in for an hour or so to help those who were falling behind. From fourth grade on, we started having teachers who were specialists, so Mrs. X would teach math to all of the 5th grade classes, and Mr. Z would teach all the science classes, and Miss Y would teach all the reading classes and so on.

Jump forward twenty five years, to when my children were in school. If a class had more than 23 students, it was cause for panic. For every two teachers, there was a shared assistant, plus roaming specialists for math, reading, science, music, computers, etc. I think the number of teachers was les than the number of assistants and specialists.

What were they doing then that made it different from today?

Let’s see:
The teacher isn’t allowed to enforce any serious discipline. When I grew up, corporal punishment was still in effect in the schools. Mrs. Stricklane had a paddle hanging in her office, which I realized later in life was a cricket bat. I felt it once, after I was in a fight while in line waiting to come into school. If you were smart, you didn’t want to feel it twice.
Classes were segregated bsed on the students’ skills and talents. Horrors! They actually dared to admit that there were differences between the students’ learning abilities. (as oppposed to diversity) Students who could learn more quickly got extra work, because the class wasn’t waiting for the learning disabled child to grasp the basic concpet that the rest of the class got 15 minutes ago. That single reading specialist could spend most of her time with the students who needed her most, so the teacher was allowed to actually teach.
Another horror – regimented activity. When we arrived at school, we had to wait eitehr outside, or if the whether was bad, in the main corridor. You went to your classroom together in the morning. You left together in the afternoon. You walked (not marched) to and from lunch and P.E. together.
You were expected to perform. Mrs. Strickland, or one of her assistants, made a point of calling the parents of any child who had a failing grade in any subject when the report cards came out.
Teachers stuck with the basics. I’ve seen the tests that teachers are screaming about today, regarding the No Child Left Behind act. I think we could have passed the 4th grade test in early 3rd grade, and a sixth grade education would probably have been enough for today’s 8th grade test. Today, schools are too busy teaching all the social bits and pieces, making sure our kids know that it’s okay to use a condom, but it’s not okay for Mom to light up a cigarette, and all the other crap that’s filtering through the schools.

My kids are old enough now to appreciate that my wife and I accepted no excuses when it came to schoolwork. Some of the people of my generation never got that point.

-cjb-

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