Important reading for any Catholic who votes…

If you’re a Catholic, and you vote, you need to read this.

As a reminder, all Catholics are to hold dear to their hearts a set of “non-negotiable” issues:

1. Abortion

2. Euthanasia

3. Embryonic Stem Cell Research

4. Human Cloning

5. Homosexual “Marriage”

These are the “non-negotiable” issues referred to when Catholics (and possibly other Christians, I wouldn’t know) refer to the “non-negotiables.” Being a practicing Catholic is more than showing up for mass on Sunday and ashes on Ash Wednesday. Defending the teachings, faith, and doctrine of the church is an obligation placed on every Catholic, and while I don’t think it means everyone should turn into a Catholic evangelical, I think it does mean that when a Senator says he’s a practicing Catholic and supports abortion with his vote, then goes to communion on Sunday, we’re obligated to question his actions.

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  • http://www.insignificantthoughts.com Vinny

    Catholics don’t have that option. There’s no “keeping your convictions out of politics” if you’re Catholic. Did you read the link I gave?

    Obviously not, because if you did you would see the CCC and CPL both say that.

    Please read something thoroughly before you comment. This isn’t Stageleft where you can say whatever you want regardless of the topic of discussion.

  • http://nonannystate.blogspot.com The Other Mike S

    This is why I think “the church” is in trouble. Attempting to force a dogma that is contrary to the times. And no, I’m not suggesting that a belief system be changed on a whim. What I’m suggesting is that organized religion needs to think about why it stands the way it does.

    Why no female priests (what? woman can’t be holy?)?

    Why no married priests (you do know that this was done around the year 1100 because priests were passing their parrishes down to their heirs, right)?

    Gay marriage (how can any loving organization treat members of society in this manner? Especially when most evidence points to the fact that it is biological, and not choice)

    Look here, Vinny:

    http://www.beliefnet.com/story/155/story_15546_1.html

    Apparently, around 1/2 of Catholics are not “up to snuff”, as they voted for Kerry. Or could it be that they’ve “seen the light”, believe in the overall Christian dogma, but stay Catholic, hoping to change it? As we discussed in an earlier post, that has been my experience.

    Abortion is probably the only “untouchable” on that list, and even it does not have full support.

    Anyone who has seen a loved one suffer knows that euthanasia is the compassionate, Christian thing to do. It must be the sufferer’s choice.

    All of the others have no historical basis by which to set current dogma, even homosexual marriage. They didn’t know then, what we know now.

    WWJD?

  • http://www.insignificantthoughts.com Vinny

    Good. Let them hope to change it.

    Doesn’t mean it should change.

    Frankly, I’m glad to be a part of a religion that doesn’t shift with ever public opinion. If that isn’t comfortable for people, they should seek their religious fulfillment elsewhere.

    No married priests is the simplest to understand, bar none.

    You are supposed to devote your life, as a priest to God and God alone. Not to a wife. You’re “married” to the church.

    It’s not complicated.

    And just because choosing to die is a person’s choice, doesn’t mean it’s Christian or Catholic or good. I’d prefer you not call it a “christian thing to do,” particularly when my particular sect is specifically against it.

    As for Catholics not being up to snuff, well so what? That’s between them and God. Still doesn’t make it right.

  • http://www.dogsnot.net gordon the magnificent

    Whenever you bring up religion people love to attack it, Vinny.

  • http://www.linoge.net/weblog/ Linoge

    Kind of funny how standing up for what one believes has turned into the “wrong” thing to do.

    Kind of funny how standing up for one’s interpretations of a religion has turned into the “wrong” thing to do.

    Kind of funny how the Roman Catholic church (even accounting for all of its glaring shortcomings) / Christianity as a whole gets beaten over the head for the upholding of its beliefs, while other religions are horribly more problematic.

    Kind of funny how religion is supposed to bend to the whims and vagaries of modern, secular society.

    Kind of funny how beliefs are thought to be variables, or even subject to change whatsoever.

    Kind of funny how people have absolutely no concept what religion is, or how it influences its believers.

  • Karbotz

    “Frankly, I’m glad to be a part of a religion that doesn’t shift with ever public opinion.”

    You’re kidding, right? Or are you rteally THAT fucking stupid?

    Vitican 2? Hello? Vatican 2?

    nuff said….

  • http://www.hauntedparsonage.us/blog/ Chuck

    Karbotz, you’re a right – you’ seem to be the kind of person who bitches because the church doesn’t change, then bitches when it does.

    Vinnie didn’t say that the Catholic church does not change – he said he’s glad to be a part of a religion that doesn’t shift with ever (sic) public opinion.

    Yes, the Catholic church has made some changes over the years. Saying mass in the local language. Priests facing the congregation during mass. Lay ministers of the eucharist. (My father was among the first in the city of Memphis)

    But there are certain basic concepts that do not change in the Catholic church, and number one among those is the sanctity of life. That leads to the Catholic church’s opposition to abortion, euthanasia, the death penalty and embryonic stem cell research. It also, indirectly, leads to the opposition to homosexual marriage, because one of the primary purposes of marriage, in the eyes of the church as I’ve understood it, is for the continuation of life in the form of bearing and raising children. And until the second immaculate concpetion occurs, that’s not happening in a homosexual marriage.

    -cjb-

  • Pilot12

    Isn’t it interesting how Vinny picks and chooses out of the issues the church stands against. (The Catholic Church is very much in opposition of the death penalty and all war – yet vinny supports that). I guess morals come buffet style for people like him. “No stem cell rearch in this pan, I will skip the next pan which is opposition to war, AH i like anti-abortion in this pan, but I think the next pan isn’t for me – anti-death penalty”

  • http://www.insignificantthoughts.com/ Vinny

    Catholics don’t have that option. There’s no “keeping your convictions out of politics” if you’re Catholic. Did you read the link I gave?

    Obviously not, because if you did you would see the CCC and CPL both say that.

    Please read something thoroughly before you comment. This isn’t Stageleft where you can say whatever you want regardless of the topic of discussion.

  • http://nonannystate.blogspot.com/ The Other Mike S

    This is why I think “the church” is in trouble. Attempting to force a dogma that is contrary to the times. And no, I’m not suggesting that a belief system be changed on a whim. What I’m suggesting is that organized religion needs to think about why it stands the way it does.

    Why no female priests (what? woman can’t be holy?)?

    Why no married priests (you do know that this was done around the year 1100 because priests were passing their parrishes down to their heirs, right)?

    Gay marriage (how can any loving organization treat members of society in this manner? Especially when most evidence points to the fact that it is biological, and not choice)

    Look here, Vinny:

    http://www.beliefnet.com/story/155/story_15546_1.html

    Apparently, around 1/2 of Catholics are not “up to snuff”, as they voted for Kerry. Or could it be that they’ve “seen the light”, believe in the overall Christian dogma, but stay Catholic, hoping to change it? As we discussed in an earlier post, that has been my experience.

    Abortion is probably the only “untouchable” on that list, and even it does not have full support.

    Anyone who has seen a loved one suffer knows that euthanasia is the compassionate, Christian thing to do. It must be the sufferer’s choice.

    All of the others have no historical basis by which to set current dogma, even homosexual marriage. They didn’t know then, what we know now.

    WWJD?

  • http://www.insignificantthoughts.com/ Vinny

    Good. Let them hope to change it.

    Doesn’t mean it should change.

    Frankly, I’m glad to be a part of a religion that doesn’t shift with ever public opinion. If that isn’t comfortable for people, they should seek their religious fulfillment elsewhere.

    No married priests is the simplest to understand, bar none.

    You are supposed to devote your life, as a priest to God and God alone. Not to a wife. You’re “married” to the church.

    It’s not complicated.

    And just because choosing to die is a person’s choice, doesn’t mean it’s Christian or Catholic or good. I’d prefer you not call it a “christian thing to do,” particularly when my particular sect is specifically against it.

    As for Catholics not being up to snuff, well so what? That’s between them and God. Still doesn’t make it right.

  • http://www.dogsnot.net/ gordon the magnificent

    Whenever you bring up religion people love to attack it, Vinny.

  • http://www.linoge.net/weblog/ Linoge

    Kind of funny how standing up for what one believes has turned into the “wrong” thing to do.

    Kind of funny how standing up for one’s interpretations of a religion has turned into the “wrong” thing to do.

    Kind of funny how the Roman Catholic church (even accounting for all of its glaring shortcomings) / Christianity as a whole gets beaten over the head for the upholding of its beliefs, while other religions are horribly more problematic.

    Kind of funny how religion is supposed to bend to the whims and vagaries of modern, secular society.

    Kind of funny how beliefs are thought to be variables, or even subject to change whatsoever.

    Kind of funny how people have absolutely no concept what religion is, or how it influences its believers.

  • Karbotz

    “Frankly, I’m glad to be a part of a religion that doesn’t shift with ever public opinion.”

    You’re kidding, right? Or are you rteally THAT fucking stupid?

    Vitican 2? Hello? Vatican 2?

    nuff said….

  • http://www.hauntedparsonage.us/blog/ Chuck

    Karbotz, you’re a right – you’ seem to be the kind of person who bitches because the church doesn’t change, then bitches when it does.

    Vinnie didn’t say that the Catholic church does not change – he said he’s glad to be a part of a religion that doesn’t shift with ever (sic) public opinion.

    Yes, the Catholic church has made some changes over the years. Saying mass in the local language. Priests facing the congregation during mass. Lay ministers of the eucharist. (My father was among the first in the city of Memphis)

    But there are certain basic concepts that do not change in the Catholic church, and number one among those is the sanctity of life. That leads to the Catholic church’s opposition to abortion, euthanasia, the death penalty and embryonic stem cell research. It also, indirectly, leads to the opposition to homosexual marriage, because one of the primary purposes of marriage, in the eyes of the church as I’ve understood it, is for the continuation of life in the form of bearing and raising children. And until the second immaculate concpetion occurs, that’s not happening in a homosexual marriage.

    -cjb-

  • Pilot12

    Isn’t it interesting how Vinny picks and chooses out of the issues the church stands against. (The Catholic Church is very much in opposition of the death penalty and all war – yet vinny supports that). I guess morals come buffet style for people like him. “No stem cell rearch in this pan, I will skip the next pan which is opposition to war, AH i like anti-abortion in this pan, but I think the next pan isn’t for me – anti-death penalty”