Impenetrable

The headlines are all over the papers, and you’d have to have your head firmly implanted into your anus to miss them. They’re screaming because people like Hillary Clinton and Harry Reid want Karl Rove to resign. Why? Because he said the following:

“But perhaps the most important difference,” he said, is “in the area of national security. Conservatives saw the attacks and prepared for war; liberals saw the savagery of the 9/11 attacks and wanted to prepare indictments and offer therapy and understanding for our attackers.”

Straight up and down the party line, the Democrats are furious over this quote, and right they should be because it exposes them for what they are. Handwringing blame-america-first losers (surely you know the term loser; it’s what the great Harry Reid used to describe George W. Bush to a room full of students).

Well, see we have two ways to approach this quote.

On one hand, we could use the Downing Street attack. This attack, simply put, means that we don’t say whether or not the accusation is true, we only say that it must be true because no Democrats have denied it. What, you say? They have?

Well? Prove it. All I’ve heard from the Democrats since this quote came out is the perpetual insistence that Karl Rove resign (a standard operation for Democrats; everyone must resign except for the former head of the KKK and Hillary “Gandhi is a Gas Station Owner” Clinton). Not once have they shot back with a defense other than “Rove is a bastard for saying it.” You would think something that was so obviously untrue would be easy to disprove. All we’d have to do is examine the war voting records and quotations of the likes of the Democrat party to find this untruth.

Instead of actually defending themselves by proving where the quote is wrong, they’ve been defending themselves by saying the person making the accusation should resign. When conservatives suggested that the “Downing Street Memos” were not 100% what they claimed to be and that their sourcing was questionable (considering every single report based on them was based on a fabrication by a reporter), we were told that we were too busy discrediting the source and that we should be more interested in addressing the charges.

Well, Democrats, here’s your big chance. Address the charge and not its source.

Of course, we also have the “Dan Rather” method. Surely you know this one also. In the Dan Rather method, the truth of any accusation is based, not on its veracity, but on its seriousness. For example, Bush’s National Guard record, which is capped with an honorable discharge, is irrelevant because a memo that Dan’s friends at the DNC made up for him that states that he was a bastard in the Texas ANG and a bad soldier who was given favors.

Or the “Koran” memos. They weren’t true, they never were true, and they never will be true. So untrue were they that Newsweek refused to stand behind them after a week of begging us to accept their truth.

But what the Dan Rather and Koran memos have in common is that Democrats (and pundits alike) suggested that the seriousness of the charges warranted their investigation and exploration. Not their content, and certainly not the veracity of their sourcing. In the liberal world, the sourcing of an attack is irrelevant, and the content of such attack is unimportant, except to the degree that the charge is serious. If a charge is really really serious, true or not, it must therefore be investigated, defended and so on.

All we’ve heard coming out of the mouths of Howard Dean and the left hemisphere of the blogosphere this weekend is how Rove is out of control for saying what he did, and he’s trying to smear Democrats and so on and so forth. You would think such a blatant attempt at putting together a false smear would be easy to disassemble given a small amount of time. I mean, Democrats could trot out their record on their response to 9/11. How they’ve supported our troops while they’re in combat. How they’ve made public declarations supporting them. How they’ve understood that our military has, through much cost to itself, not just carpet bombed Afghanistan and Iraq, which would’ve saved thousands of American servicemen and women’s lives.

Surely such a blatant falsehood would be extremely easy to disprove if their record were as good as they want us to believe it is. I would think that instead of beating Karl Rove over the head and asking for his resignation, they would be lining up to tout their record.

Were it good in the first place.

But due to the seriousness of the charges, and their non-denial of them, I’d have to conclude based on prevalent Democrat methodology, that the charges are indeed true. The good news is once you reach a conclusion based on Democrat methodology, all you have to do is call counter-evidence insufficient, partisan, or a lie, so don’t bother defending the Democrats here.

Democrat methodology is impenetrable.

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  • pam

    I thought that it was interesting to note that he used the word liberal and not democrat.:wink:

  • http://turningwheels.blogspot.com nathalie

    I was perplexed with the reaction to Rove’s statement. This is the party with Patty “Osama-mama” Murray, Byrd and Dean representing. Trent Lott is forced to step down for praising his colleague (but, heaven forbid, he hurt some delicate feelings, apparently), yet another Senator (D) praises OBL and…. chirp chirp chirp. Dean lashes out at Republicans, and…. more chirps. Rove, who isn’t even elected or chosen by his party as a whole, has the audacity to jab at liberals, and the sky is falling. I don’t know what the Democrats stand for anymore, or what their ideas are for the future. All I know is they like to complain and bash our President without criticism, while not allowing the same to the other side of the aisle. Every day my party affiliation switch four years ago is further validated…

    respectfully submitted,
    Another Middle-Aged, White, Male Christian Who Has Never Earned An Honest Living….
    - nathalie

  • http://www.robertkbrown.com/ RKB

    Dammit. A very long, very angry, very fucking pissed off post was just deleted due to a bullshit laptop mouse. I may add of my own vehement comments later, but I want it to be VERY clear that everybody I knew, every single person, wanted to get Bin Laden in Afghanistan. This country was fucking united in it’s desire for retribution and justice. United.

    Check the complete lack of “nea” votes on the roll calls of either of these two joint resolutions, from 09/12/01 and 09/14/01, and tell me that liberals weren’t gearing up for war, too. Here’s the summary from the second (again: not a single “nea” vote for this, not even from Paul Wellstone):

    Authorization for Use of Military Force – Authorizes the President to use all necessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons, in order to prevent any future acts of international terrorism against the United States by such nations, organizations, or persons.

    Fuck Karl Rove and his fucking lies.

  • http://www.insignificantthoughts.com Vinny

    Heh.

    Sure.

    Well, the good news is, by your standard, they all loved the Patriot Act, also. I mean, nobody voted against that either. And hey, that Patriot Act has been a cornerstone of the Democratic platform since there were no “nea” votes when it was on the floor of Congress.

  • http://www.robertkbrown.com/ RKB

    C’mon, Vinny. We’ve had this conversation before — you know my almost knee-jerk reaction to these sorts of broad-brush statements. All Rove needed to do was qualify his statement: “Most conservatives saw the attacks and prepared for war; some liberals saw savagery of the 9/11 attacks…”

    That would have been an absolutely true statement. But he’s a smart pup, that Rove, and he didn’t qualify it for a reason. In the days and weeks immediately following 9/11, there was complete and utter support for the President, the likes of which are rarely (if ever) seen. Nearly every American, regardless of their political persuasion, supported the use of military action in Afghanistan, to hunt down Osama Bin Laden, and bring him to justice — assuming we didn’t kill his ass dead in the mountains.

    Many of us STILL support that goal. Instead of supporting Rove’s diatribe against easily a third of this country, maybe we should once again ask why the mastermind behind the 9/11 attacks hasn’t been brought to justice. Just because we don’t support this fucked up war in Iraq doesn’t mean we didn’t want — and don’t still want — some closure for those we lost on 9/11.

  • http://www.insignificantthoughts.com Vinny

    Give me a break, RKB. A pretty large swath of Democrats didn’t support frigging Afghanistan after it went on for more than ten minutes.

    Your Norman Rockwellesque portrait of Americans rallying behind the President regardless of their political stripe is absolute bullshit.

  • http://www.linoge.net/weblog/ Linoge

    Methinks the duplicitousness (is that a word?) of politicians is lost on RKB… Can you imagine what would have happened to those individuals if they had the nerve to vote against the resolutions that soon after 9/11? They probably would not have been dragged out in the streets and drawn and quartered (probably), but they definitely would have lost any chances of retaining their seats in the next election. Sure, they voted for the resolutions, good for them. And then promptly turned around and started bitching and moaning about “American deserved this,” and “the hijackers were just doing what they thought was right,” and “how could we have prevented this?” and all that complete dren.

    So, yeah, you are right. And completely and absolutely wrong.

  • http://www.insignificantthoughts.com Vinny

    Sure, they voted for the resolutions, good for them. And then promptly turned around and started bitching and moaning about “American deserved this,” and “the hijackers were just doing what they thought was right,” and “how could we have prevented this?” and all that complete dren.

    My point exactly.

    Anyway, at least they voted for the Patriot Act, which I know they wholeheartedly agreed with. And the war with Iraq.

    Democrats always vote their conscience.

  • http://www.robertkbrown.com/ RKB

    At the risk of this degrading into an “is not,” “is too” kind of debate, I’ll answer this

    Your Norman Rockwellesque portrait of Americans rallying behind the President regardless of their political stripe is absolute bullshit.

    with this chart, as well as this quote.

    September 24, 2001
    Bush Job Approval Highest in Gallup History
    Widespread public support for war on terrorism

    by David W. Moore

    President George W. Bush’s call to arms in a nationwide address last Thursday evening has elicited widespread public support for a war against terrorism, as well as the highest presidential job approval rating ever measured by Gallup since it began asking the public for its evaluation over six decades ago. Bush’s current 90% job approval rating is one point higher than President George H.W. Bush received at the end of the Gulf War in 1991, and higher than the approval rating received by Franklin Roosevelt after Pearl Harbor.

    Digging through some other Gallup archives, I came across this one, too, in response to your assertion that “apretty large swath of Democrats didn’t support frigging Afghanistan after it went on for more than ten minutes.”

    October 08, 2001
    Public Overwhelmingly Backs Bush in Attacks on Afghanistan
    Expects new terrorist attacks

    by David W. Moore

    An overwhelming majority of Americans approve of the United States launching military attacks in Afghanistan Sunday and of the way President George W. Bush is handling the campaign against terrorism. A special CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll conducted Sunday night also shows widespread support for taking additional military action in Afghanistan, even if it entails U.S. ground troops and results in Afghan civilians getting killed, and for attacking other countries that the U.S. government believes are harboring terrorists. Americans do not expect, however, that such actions are risk-free. More than eight in 10 now believe it is likely that there will be further terrorist attacks in the United States over the next several weeks, up from polling conducted two weeks ago. Most Americans also expect that the fighting in Afghanistan will last at least several months, with about half expecting the war there to last a year or more.

    And this one, about a month later.

    November 01, 2001
    Eight of 10 Americans Support Ground War in Afghanistan
    One in five is opposed; another one in five can be considered “reluctant warriors”

    by David W. Moore

    The latest Gallup polls shows that Americans favor the use of ground troops in Afghanistan by more than a four-to-one margin, 80% to 18%. However, the poll also shows that there are differences in shades of support, with about one-fifth of Americans who can be classified as “hawks,” one-fifth as “reluctant warriors,” and two-fifths as “willing supporters,” in addition to the one-fifth who are “doves.”

    And this one, about another month later.

    November 29, 2001
    Overwhelming Support for War Continues
    Americans have also become more likely to support long-term war against global terrorism

    by Frank Newport

    Americans have become increasingly more positive about the success of the U.S. military action in Afghanistan, and over nine out of 10 approve of the presence of U.S. ground troops in that country. Support for the concept of a long-term war against global terrorism has risen, and three-quarters of Americans favor using U.S. troops to remove Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq. President Bush’s job approval rating remains extraordinarily high at 87%.

    I will say it again: fuck Karl Rove and his fucking revisionist history.

  • http://www.linoge.net/weblog/ Linoge

    Interesting that all of those Gallup polls all are within three months of 9/11/01. Interesting indeed.

    Ok, I will grant that the Democrats’ support of either war lasted more than 10 minutes. But not much more, in the grand scheme of things.

    Of course, it is also interesting that all of those polls are of the public populace, and not of the specific cross-section of the population that is employed on Capitol Hill…

  • http://www.linoge.net/weblog/ Linoge

    Interesting that I lose track of what I am writing in the middle of a sentence too… kill that second “all”.

  • pam

    I thought that it was interesting to note that he used the word liberal and not democrat.:wink:

  • http://turningwheels.blogspot.com/ nathalie

    I was perplexed with the reaction to Rove’s statement. This is the party with Patty “Osama-mama” Murray, Byrd and Dean representing. Trent Lott is forced to step down for praising his colleague (but, heaven forbid, he hurt some delicate feelings, apparently), yet another Senator (D) praises OBL and…. chirp chirp chirp. Dean lashes out at Republicans, and…. more chirps. Rove, who isn’t even elected or chosen by his party as a whole, has the audacity to jab at liberals, and the sky is falling. I don’t know what the Democrats stand for anymore, or what their ideas are for the future. All I know is they like to complain and bash our President without criticism, while not allowing the same to the other side of the aisle. Every day my party affiliation switch four years ago is further validated…

    respectfully submitted,
    Another Middle-Aged, White, Male Christian Who Has Never Earned An Honest Living….
    - nathalie

  • http://www.robertkbrown.com/ RKB

    Dammit. A very long, very angry, very fucking pissed off post was just deleted due to a bullshit laptop mouse. I may add of my own vehement comments later, but I want it to be VERY clear that everybody I knew, every single person, wanted to get Bin Laden in Afghanistan. This country was fucking united in it’s desire for retribution and justice. United.

    Check the complete lack of “nea” votes on the roll calls of either of these two joint resolutions, from 09/12/01 and 09/14/01, and tell me that liberals weren’t gearing up for war, too. Here’s the summary from the second (again: not a single “nea” vote for this, not even from Paul Wellstone):

    Authorization for Use of Military Force – Authorizes the President to use all necessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons, in order to prevent any future acts of international terrorism against the United States by such nations, organizations, or persons.

    Fuck Karl Rove and his fucking lies.

  • http://www.insignificantthoughts.com/ Vinny

    Heh.

    Sure.

    Well, the good news is, by your standard, they all loved the Patriot Act, also. I mean, nobody voted against that either. And hey, that Patriot Act has been a cornerstone of the Democratic platform since there were no “nea” votes when it was on the floor of Congress.

  • http://www.robertkbrown.com/ RKB

    C’mon, Vinny. We’ve had this conversation before — you know my almost knee-jerk reaction to these sorts of broad-brush statements. All Rove needed to do was qualify his statement: “Most conservatives saw the attacks and prepared for war; some liberals saw savagery of the 9/11 attacks…”

    That would have been an absolutely true statement. But he’s a smart pup, that Rove, and he didn’t qualify it for a reason. In the days and weeks immediately following 9/11, there was complete and utter support for the President, the likes of which are rarely (if ever) seen. Nearly every American, regardless of their political persuasion, supported the use of military action in Afghanistan, to hunt down Osama Bin Laden, and bring him to justice — assuming we didn’t kill his ass dead in the mountains.

    Many of us STILL support that goal. Instead of supporting Rove’s diatribe against easily a third of this country, maybe we should once again ask why the mastermind behind the 9/11 attacks hasn’t been brought to justice. Just because we don’t support this fucked up war in Iraq doesn’t mean we didn’t want — and don’t still want — some closure for those we lost on 9/11.

  • http://www.insignificantthoughts.com/ Vinny

    Give me a break, RKB. A pretty large swath of Democrats didn’t support frigging Afghanistan after it went on for more than ten minutes.

    Your Norman Rockwellesque portrait of Americans rallying behind the President regardless of their political stripe is absolute bullshit.

  • http://www.linoge.net/weblog/ Linoge

    Methinks the duplicitousness (is that a word?) of politicians is lost on RKB… Can you imagine what would have happened to those individuals if they had the nerve to vote against the resolutions that soon after 9/11? They probably would not have been dragged out in the streets and drawn and quartered (probably), but they definitely would have lost any chances of retaining their seats in the next election. Sure, they voted for the resolutions, good for them. And then promptly turned around and started bitching and moaning about “American deserved this,” and “the hijackers were just doing what they thought was right,” and “how could we have prevented this?” and all that complete dren.

    So, yeah, you are right. And completely and absolutely wrong.

  • http://www.insignificantthoughts.com/ Vinny

    Sure, they voted for the resolutions, good for them. And then promptly turned around and started bitching and moaning about “American deserved this,” and “the hijackers were just doing what they thought was right,” and “how could we have prevented this?” and all that complete dren.

    My point exactly.

    Anyway, at least they voted for the Patriot Act, which I know they wholeheartedly agreed with. And the war with Iraq.

    Democrats always vote their conscience.

  • http://www.robertkbrown.com/ RKB

    At the risk of this degrading into an “is not,” “is too” kind of debate, I’ll answer this

    Your Norman Rockwellesque portrait of Americans rallying behind the President regardless of their political stripe is absolute bullshit.

    with this chart, as well as this quote.

    September 24, 2001
    Bush Job Approval Highest in Gallup History
    Widespread public support for war on terrorism

    by David W. Moore

    President George W. Bush’s call to arms in a nationwide address last Thursday evening has elicited widespread public support for a war against terrorism, as well as the highest presidential job approval rating ever measured by Gallup since it began asking the public for its evaluation over six decades ago. Bush’s current 90% job approval rating is one point higher than President George H.W. Bush received at the end of the Gulf War in 1991, and higher than the approval rating received by Franklin Roosevelt after Pearl Harbor.

    Digging through some other Gallup archives, I came across this one, too, in response to your assertion that “apretty large swath of Democrats didn’t support frigging Afghanistan after it went on for more than ten minutes.”

    October 08, 2001
    Public Overwhelmingly Backs Bush in Attacks on Afghanistan
    Expects new terrorist attacks

    by David W. Moore

    An overwhelming majority of Americans approve of the United States launching military attacks in Afghanistan Sunday and of the way President George W. Bush is handling the campaign against terrorism. A special CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll conducted Sunday night also shows widespread support for taking additional military action in Afghanistan, even if it entails U.S. ground troops and results in Afghan civilians getting killed, and for attacking other countries that the U.S. government believes are harboring terrorists. Americans do not expect, however, that such actions are risk-free. More than eight in 10 now believe it is likely that there will be further terrorist attacks in the United States over the next several weeks, up from polling conducted two weeks ago. Most Americans also expect that the fighting in Afghanistan will last at least several months, with about half expecting the war there to last a year or more.

    And this one, about a month later.

    November 01, 2001
    Eight of 10 Americans Support Ground War in Afghanistan
    One in five is opposed; another one in five can be considered “reluctant warriors”

    by David W. Moore

    The latest Gallup polls shows that Americans favor the use of ground troops in Afghanistan by more than a four-to-one margin, 80% to 18%. However, the poll also shows that there are differences in shades of support, with about one-fifth of Americans who can be classified as “hawks,” one-fifth as “reluctant warriors,” and two-fifths as “willing supporters,” in addition to the one-fifth who are “doves.”

    And this one, about another month later.

    November 29, 2001
    Overwhelming Support for War Continues
    Americans have also become more likely to support long-term war against global terrorism

    by Frank Newport

    Americans have become increasingly more positive about the success of the U.S. military action in Afghanistan, and over nine out of 10 approve of the presence of U.S. ground troops in that country. Support for the concept of a long-term war against global terrorism has risen, and three-quarters of Americans favor using U.S. troops to remove Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq. President Bush’s job approval rating remains extraordinarily high at 87%.

    I will say it again: fuck Karl Rove and his fucking revisionist history.

  • http://www.linoge.net/weblog/ Linoge

    Interesting that all of those Gallup polls all are within three months of 9/11/01. Interesting indeed.

    Ok, I will grant that the Democrats’ support of either war lasted more than 10 minutes. But not much more, in the grand scheme of things.

    Of course, it is also interesting that all of those polls are of the public populace, and not of the specific cross-section of the population that is employed on Capitol Hill…

  • http://www.linoge.net/weblog/ Linoge

    Interesting that I lose track of what I am writing in the middle of a sentence too… kill that second “all”.