What else is there to say?

Pilot12 says "Somehow a brow beat leader of a country that was choked all over was attacked for a reason that turned out to be bullshit"- obviously you have held your breath one too many times.

do you always answer a question with a question? how about settling all the previous off-topic crap before bringing up even more (very old and very much already debated) off-topic crap? or better yet, how about we just skip the the same old debate, cuz it's just gonna end the same way it started: in total disagreement.

Then what purpose does the patriot act server? What purpose does he Iraq war serve (and not even your King Bush can link Iraq to Sept. 11th)?

Somehow shielding pharmecutical companies from being sued for putting bad drugs out on the market made it into the patriot act. Somehow a brow beat leader of a country that was choked all over was attacked for a reason that turned out to be bullshit. I fail to see these two things making any difference. Why is hundreds of billions of dollars been spent then and we are no safer than we were on Spet 10th? And what have we done since Spet. 11th to be any safer?

~~holding breath~~

all barefoot paul offered were the 'risks' of living in a free society. so tell us, how the hell can *anybody* prevent somebody from mailing an envelope of powder, or how anybody can stop a person from taking a rifle and sniping at random people? come on now, y'all bitch and moan about our basic freedoms being squashed since 9/11, so how the hell do you stop those weak examples of "terrorism" without *really* taking away our basic freedoms? ~holding breath~

Nobody has said that the type of attack that happened in London cannot happen here. I suffer minor bouts of anxiety every time my BART train goes under the bay on the way to San Francisco. it CAN happen. that's the price we pay for living in a free society. it's highly doubtful, however, that highly coordinated, extremely destructive, 9/11-type of attack will happen again on our soil. doesn't mean we can stop the timothy mcveigh's of the world from blowing up a uhaul in front of a building, or prevent people from boarding trains and busses with backpacks full of explosives. if it were possible to stop those types of attacks in a free society, the Israelis would have figured it out years ago.

Actually, no, that wasn't an answer. Now go away. You're boring.

He answered your question Vinny and he is unbelievable?

You don't even have a weak argument Vinny. You just have no argument, period.

You're unbelievable, Paul.

And I don't mean that in a good way.

If we're not benefitting from Iraq's oil, I'll have to rescind my compliment of Bush. My comment on his supporters still stands.

I seem to recall an anthrax attack that I believe was on our soil. Also a Washington DC area sniper. Neither of these were as well organized as 9/11, but I would certainly consider them acts of terrorism. You'd have to be very foolish to think that something like the London attack could never happen here, and even more foolish to think that occupying Iraq provides that protection.

You didn't say we weren't safe. You said we "can't seem to protect our own soil."

I know you don't read what I write and just scribble whatever useless contrarian crap you're in the mood for, but at least read what you write.

I don't remember an attack on our soil since 9/11. Maybe you do?

You think we are safe Vinny?!? After all of the money spent and lives lost, all we can show for it is longer lines at the airport and taking our shoes off?

Show me how we are better off than we were on Spet 10th 2001.

But when we cannot seems to protect our own soil nearly 4 years after Sept 11th and hundreds of billions of dollars later with such simple things like the one mentioned in the above sentence, than your argument means nothing.

I'm sorry... I must've missed the other attack on American soil since 9/11.

When was it?

And it was that horrible bleeding heart left who let 50 undocumented workers on a North Carolina air force base go un-noticed too, huh?

You might have a case about your "war on terrorism" if that is who in fact we were really fighting. But when we cannot seems to protect our own soil nearly 4 years after Sept 11th and hundreds of billions of dollars later with such simple things like the one mentioned in the above sentence, than your argument means nothing. And if you believe that hoew BushCo is handleing this is right and just, than you are just another sheep in his flock. Go follow your pied piper because he will lead you right to your doom.

Kind of like how we have been fighting the war on drugs Lionge, huh?

The best way to handle the trolls who come up with such cute little talking points, or such massive (-ly idiotic) tirades, is simply to ignore them. Either of them have yet to make a valid point, or much sense at all, so I am just going to move on and leave it at that.

As for the real point of this thread before it was so kindly hijacked, my heartfelt sympathies for anyone affected by these murders in London, be they family members, friends, or the world in general (at least the part of the world that is not liberalistic, bleeding-heart, "we-have-to-understand-them", terrorist-appeasing nitwits). The mayor of London had some damned fine things to say about these attacks, and mostly how spineless the terrorists really are (which is so very much the case), however, Churchill still has some very valid words about these kinds of situations, even though they were uttered on 04JUN40.

Hang these terrorists out to dry. Hunt them down wherever they are hiding. Kill them. Arrest their compatriots. Arrest anyone who aided or assisted them, in any way. War is not about materially destroying the enemy, but destroying their will to fight. As some of the people who post here have already demonstrated, the terrorists have already won that battle over, at least on a few people. Time to start turning the tide on the terrorists, instead of losing more people to the mindless left.

the Lord told me one thing, but don't get mad at me for it! don't view your opinions as gods, people do that i know i do. support the land the Lord has blessed. don't conform to this anti-mentality, submit to the authority established by the Living God and He will make the changes, our opinions can't change the hairs on our heads, only He can. i love you all.

Wow, Sirrios. Nice dissertation. Unfortunately I can't respond to your strawman argument (prevent cancer? are you kidding me?) or your predictable tripe about Israel now because I'm busy with visiting family. But I won't let it go without a response.

Barefoot Paul, don't worry about us gullible ones... we'll keep fighting the good fight for you. Be sure to keep track of all the ooooooooiiiiil we take from Iraq and keep us posted. Surely we've already stolen millions of barrels.

And Amen, Bridget.

Let me get this straight - war on terrorism is not the answer, but avoiding it is the solution? How the hell do you avoid it when it is brought to your front door step killing over 3thousand innocent civilians? You think they had any chance to say let's get out of it's way before we are killed while minding our business going to work to support our families sitting at home waiting for our return at the end of this average day in this free country? What you convieniently forget is that talks of peace with the Arab countries have been going on for years and years. We didn't throw the first punch. We are defending ourselves from the second. And apparently doing a better job of it than before since the terrorists had to go infiltrate a different country to blow up innocents instead of our country.

avoid cancer to prevent cancer? My father-in-law had led a very healthy lifestyle all his life and still managed to somehow get colon cancer and almost die. By your logic he shouldn't have fought back against it. He should have just gotten out of it's way. After all, that cancer gene had first rights to that space he was standing in, right? You honestly think if we actually packed up and left every Arab country they would leave us alone? Blind hatred needs no reason to attack innocents. They will not be satisfied until we are wiped off the earth as quickly as possible. Step out of their way? Hell no.

Why would terrorists need a home country when they can comfortably reside in almost any country?

Bush may not be as dumb as some of us take him for. I'm not so sure about some of his supporters. As an ex-oilman, he knows what's to be gained by occupying Iraq. You'd have to be extremely gullible to belive it's safety and security.

Last time I checked, the terrorists don't have a country to call home. What of all the Iraqis, Saudis, Jordanians and Afganis that want nothing to do with these barbaric animals Sirrios? Should we just hand them the countries and tell the other citizens they are on their own? They should be cut off because of the radicals that want to destroy people? You are correct in using the example of a cancer though..the terrorists are a cancer and we are fighting it aggresively. Jimmy Carter tried your appeasement approach. It failed miserably.

Nathalie,

If a person has cancer do you say the answer to the cure is radical chemotherapy? While that may be true for the treatment, it is certainly not the cure. And it is certainly not the answer for everyone else. What is the answer? The answer is to try and prevent the cancer from happening altogether. That means using the means of prevention. Eating the right balanced diet. Avoiding the carcinogenic agents that are known to cause cancers, etc.

Just as radical chemo is not the "answer" to curing cancer, neither is war for stopping terrorism. I mean, God fucking forbid someone in power takes a step back and starts ti think rather than react and say "when did these people start hating us and why?" We have been a free nation for 200+ years now and only have been directly involved with terrorism for the last 50 or so. Why? And my question is, why hasn't anyone given and REAL THOUGHT to it? Al-Qeada was started by Osama Bin laden, a man that our very own CIA trained and funded to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan in the 80s. Again, why hasn't ANYONE given any thought to the real root cause of this hatred towards us? Fact is, these terrorist are not psychopathic killers. Psychoskill to kill. They don't who they kill. And they don't necessarily want to die themselves. No. These terrorists are more dangerous. The have a divine reason to kill (in their minds) and they have it calculated. And it will only get worse.

One solution would be to give them what they want. Let's get out of their countires. Let'c cut off all aid and trade and have no relationship with them. We thebn post a coalition military in the non-arab border countires, that way we are not on their "sacred arab land." Let them shoot, kill and praise allah to the highest in their litters boxes to their hearts content. If they try to leave and bring their jihads across that border. Kill them. Plain and simple. If they want to play nice with everyone else, play nice with them. Plain and simple. Israel wants to continue to stay where they are at. That si their problem then. It is lthe same concept that if you live in a bad beighborhood that is only getting worse, you have every right to stay there but don't bitch that yout getting harassed day and night because your blatently against what the neighboorhood has become and what it is. The alternative is to move. Nobody else outside of the hell hole should support you or have to take shit over it. Nor should we, the USA, have to take shit because Israel doesn't want to play nice in their bad neighborhood. I am sorry, but that is the price you have to pay.

At least you are right about one thing you said "unsophisticated, dumb Texan"

my thoughts and prayers are with the victims and their families.

thank goodness the people that matter realize that the enemy isn't solely in Afghanistan. After all, that same enemy already hit us in New York, Tanzania, Kenya, Somalia and Yemen, and our response (or lack thereof) brought us September 11, 2001. War IS the answer when it's brought to your doorstep. Let's also not lose sight of the fact that Europe has had a big problem brewing with their immigrant Muslim population for years. It just validates the notion that we need to tighten our borders and keep a close eye on those who are here.

it's probably much easier, though, to just stick your head in the sand and pretend it's about one man in one country, instead of a warped ideology run amok. Amazing that a so-called unsophisticated, dumb Texan gets it, yet the self-proclaimed enlightened ones of the world can't.

I will have to learn to stop assuming bad motives. I am not usually the kind of person who gets worked up about things like badly drawn flags either! And thanks for your solidarity.

Not a problem.

I updated the flag with the one you linked (thanks, btw, I couldn't find a decent sized flag except for the handdrawn one and never thought to check Wikipedia).

As for the saying, I don't think Davey meant it in a negative way at all. I think he literally meant it as it was stated. Knowing him, he, like I, feels like we were attacked, not just London.

Sorry for snapping at you.

OK, well sorry for snapping, I am not trolling by the way.

The flag looks like this and saying "Long live the Queen" as one of your commenters did is liable to be interpreted as some kind of mockery. Do you think we go round saying stuff like that??

It's a hand-done flag and frankly I don't see how anything here can be interpreted as a joke. Unless of course you're trolling around picking fights.

is the messed up flag and god bless the queen crap supposed to be a joke?

No magic... Just pointing out how he will probably never be directly affected by a terrorist attack and that tends to embolden one's mouth.

Surely you know the logic... It's the same as your logic about people who have never been in the military being able to truly "support" the troops.

I lived through 9/11. You watched it on TV. It's much easier for you to talk about it as some vague event when you're nowhere near where it can or did happen.

I love how Vinny thinks he is performing magic when he points out where people supposedly are (because he can look at an access log and do a whois lookup on the ip) - such technical prowess).. People are still entitled to their opinions Vinny even in the face of tradgedy. If we were to run away from our freedoms everytime tradgedy struck, than the terrorists win.
My heart and prayers go out to the victims of yesterdays bombins. But just like Sept. 11th, I will not back away from my view points that war is the solution nor will I hold my tounge that the neocons have it all wrong.

Wow. The talking points never get old and are never given a rest. :roll:

Then again, I guess it's easy to be all cavalier and indignant in fricking Minnesota.

It certainly illustrates how foolish it was to claim we need to fight the terrorists in Iraq so we don't have to fight them "here". As if using our troops as decoys was honorable in the first place. Perhaps now we'll be able to focus on the real enemy that eluded us in Afghanistan when we diverted our attention to Iraq.

Long live the Queen.

My thoughts and prayers are with them:sad: