Nobody’s Asking, So Screw it; I will…

One of the things the left does that drives me up a wall is that they blame the victim for what happens to them. Even after 9/11, the US State Department, at the urging of many groups (such as CAIR, a fine organization), had a little get-together in which they discussed what we did to make the poor oppressed men who blew 3,000 of our citizens into dust do what they did.

As much as it drives me crazy when they do it, however, I think I’m gonna have to borrow a play from their playbook here.

The police in London screwed up. Before I say anything else, I’m going to get that out of the way. I don’t think that killing an unarmed man wrongly is something to be taken lightly, glossed over, or forgotten. When you make the decision to pull the trigger, there are consequences if you do so incorrectly. As human beings we all need to examine our biases and such.

But there’s one question I have to ask that I have not seen one major news outlet ask yet (and I’m open to indications that somebody did). I’ve read the Los Angeles Times, USA Today, the New York Post, lots of online resources (AP and Reuters mostly), The Financial Times, and watched CNN and Fox.

No one asked a very simple question.

The AP had the following opening on a story on their newswire yesterday afternoon:

SAO PAULO, Brazil – Brazil’s government demanded an explanation Saturday for the fatal police shooting of Brazilian citizen on a London subway car. London police initially said the man chased down and shot to death by plainclothes officers was tied to the recent terror bombings, but conceded Saturday that they no longer believed that was the case.

The Brazilian government said the man, identified by British authorities as 27-year-old Jean Charles de Menezes, was “apparently the victim of a lamentable mistake.”

“The government expects the British authorities to explain the circumstances that led to this tragedy,” the statement said.

He was chased down.

Now ponder for a moment, the wisdom in running from the police in London on that particular day. They tell you to stop. They have guns drawn. Your first instinct is to run? Reminds me of the Amadou Diallo case, in a way. An immigrant, when told, in a really bad neighborhood, to put his hands in the air, kept reaching into his pocket despite repeated warnings not to do so. When he finally pulled his wallet out, he was shot multiple times until he hit the ground.

The tragic part of that case was that Diallo didn’t speak English.

The man, in London, however, had no such excuse:

“He spoke English very well, and had permission to study and work there,” Menezes’ cousin Maria Alves told the O Globo Online Web site from her home in Sao Paulo.

So he spoke English “very well” and yet his first instinct in a jittery city that had just been rocked by two sets of bomb explosions is to run?

The more I repeat it, the more absurd it sounds. His running away, in my opinion, is suspicious behavior, the likes of which would cause you to be shot, particularly if you decide, while running from the police, to do so into a subway car during morning rush. I almost hate to say it, but if the police are pursuing a man that runs into a subway car, in London, in the context of what had happened in the past two weeks, I’d fire any officer that didn’t shoot him and do so to kill.

All this guy had to do to save his own life was stop.

In this case, I’d have to say most of the responsibility for this man’s death lies in his grave with him.

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  • pam

    Vinny, my hubby and I talked about it, and we felt that the police acted correctly. They had a tip, they warned him to stop according to witnesses, he ran and they reacted. I am sorry for his death, but this was not the day to run.

  • http://www.robertkbrown.com/ RKB

    You’d bolded the important part, Vinny. They were plainclothes police officers. I can’t know how things went down that day, but to play devil’s advocate, if a bunch of strangers tried to surround me, yelling at me to stop, I might run too. I’d also read that he’d been attacked by a gang a few weeks prior, so it might have been an attempt to avoid getting beaten down. Run into a public area, you know, where it’s safer.

    It’s different if they’re in uniform, and I’d completely agree with you. I don’t blame the police either, even out of uniform. But I also don’t think that “most of the responsibility for this man’s death lies in his grave with him.”

  • http://www.insignificantthoughts.com Vinny

    I’d find it hard to believe that they surrounded him and ordered him to stop and didn’t tell him they were police or identify themselves as such. This is London we’re talking about. Supposedly people don’t have guns there, so it’s not like guns are a common thing people are used to seeing in the hands of the common man.

    And, you would have to assume, that the police didn’t identify themselves as such before shooting him in your explanation. In other words, they drew guns, he ran, they shot him. That would be double-odd behavior. Him for running, and the police for not identifying themselves and then catching him and just putting a few bullets in him.

    Your explanation just flat out doesn’t make sense when you put it in the context of what would have had to have happened in order for it to play out that way.

  • http://www.robertkbrown.com/ RKB

    I actually edited out the part where I’d written “I’m sure they identified themselves.” But, again, I wasn’t there, so I don’t know how that happened, nor have I ever been in that kind of a situation before.

    Heck, I’ve taught my kids to run away, run fast, from any strangers. We tell them not to believe it if somebody tells them that they’re the police, or that they know us, but to just run and yell and run.

    Again, I’m not trying to suggest that the police did anything wrong here. In a previous life, I worked with law enforcement enough to respect the difficult snap decisions that need to be made.

    I’m just suggesting that it’s not at all unreasonable to think that somebody might have panicked, surrounded by strangers who probably looked like they meant business, and bolted. Fight or Flight is an instinctive way to respond to stressful, potentially dangerous situations.

  • http://www.insignificantthoughts.com Vinny

    I’m just suggesting that it’s not at all unreasonable to think that somebody might have panicked, surrounded by strangers who probably looked like they meant business, and bolted. Fight or Flight is an instinctive way to respond to stressful, potentially dangerous situations.

    I’m not arguing that point. I’m just saying that many things would have had to have happened wrong to lead to that point with the police not identifying themselves.

    I don’t know. I’m just surprised that not a single media outlet has even entertained the question. It’s worth knowing. The guy running is what ultimately caused him to be shot. It wasn’t just some trigger-happy cop with a vendetta against dark-skinned folks which seems to be what’s being played in the halls of media mouthpieces.

  • drc

    Just a thought, but why does one never question the authorities first ? Were there confirmations that leave no doubt as to whether or not the police actually yelled stop ? Do we even know for certain that the man shot knew the officers were directing their intentions at him ? He obviousely was in a hurry, he was afterall running to board and tripped in the process of boarding. Before we begin to place the blame on one that isn’t here to defend himself, we should cover all the bases, and not just take the shooter at his word. Afterall, history tells us that lots of bad things happen to innocent people.

  • http://www.insignificantthoughts.com Vinny

    Drc,

    What the heck do you mean, no one?

    All anyone has done since this happened is question the authorities. Pay better attention.

  • http://stageleft.info stageleft

    While we’re asking questions maybe we should ask why eye witness accounts (as reported on CFRA by Michael Harris) have this guy on the ground and immobilized and then shot 5 times in the head are not getting any play in the western press?

    The press would have us believe that he was shot while in the act of trying to escape, and some have even praised the police for their good aim, but according to accounts by people who were there and actually witnessed the event the guy didn’t have to stop – he was stopped, he was immobilized, and then he was shot point-blank 5 times in the head in what some described as an execution style killing.

    That part has no propaganda value for the good guys does it – could that be why it’s not playing a larger role in this?

  • http://www.insignificantthoughts.com Vinny

    Come off it man. That part of the story is not exactly a secret.

    Guy who speaks perfect english comes out of his house in a jacket with a backpack on during a heatwave from a building that police were watching after a suicide bombing and runs like hell for the subway and is shot in the subway.

    Know what? Considering the circumstances I can’t blame the police for blowing the guy’s brains all over the place. A living man who runs from police, in the context of the situation, is much more dangerous.

    Now, as for your “it’s not playing in the Western press,” give me a damned break with that already. You’re not some intrepid journalist discovering some top secret piece of information. The only western press it played in was the AP, Reuters, and CNN, MSNBC, and FOX News.

    You know…

    Tiny little outlets…

    Enough with the “Western press isn’t telling you the whole story” whine. It’s old already.

  • http://stageleft.info stageleft

    Come off it man. That part of the story is not exactly a secret.

    And not getting exactly much discussion either, it’s being pretty well passed over for other elements of the drame – my point is that the police had a whole lot of options available to them other than multiple shots to the head, yet, for whatever reason, multiple shots to the head became the chosen option… and few people are questioning that at all.

    You’re not some intrepid journalist discovering some top secret piece of information.

    Never said I was, I am however bringing something to the discussion that few people seem to want to talk about.. It might not be as sexy as a dark skinned man in a bulky jacket runnng through a subway station but it sure as hell is an important part of the story – don’t ‘cha think?

  • http://www.insignificantthoughts.com Vinny

    It might not be as sexy as a dark skinned man in a bulky jacket runnng through a subway station but it sure as hell is an important part of the story – don’t ‘cha think?

    Under the circumstances? Absolutely not.

  • pam

    Vinny, my hubby and I talked about it, and we felt that the police acted correctly. They had a tip, they warned him to stop according to witnesses, he ran and they reacted. I am sorry for his death, but this was not the day to run.

  • http://www.robertkbrown.com/ RKB

    You’d bolded the important part, Vinny. They were plainclothes police officers. I can’t know how things went down that day, but to play devil’s advocate, if a bunch of strangers tried to surround me, yelling at me to stop, I might run too. I’d also read that he’d been attacked by a gang a few weeks prior, so it might have been an attempt to avoid getting beaten down. Run into a public area, you know, where it’s safer.

    It’s different if they’re in uniform, and I’d completely agree with you. I don’t blame the police either, even out of uniform. But I also don’t think that “most of the responsibility for this man’s death lies in his grave with him.”

  • http://www.insignificantthoughts.com/ Vinny

    I’d find it hard to believe that they surrounded him and ordered him to stop and didn’t tell him they were police or identify themselves as such. This is London we’re talking about. Supposedly people don’t have guns there, so it’s not like guns are a common thing people are used to seeing in the hands of the common man.

    And, you would have to assume, that the police didn’t identify themselves as such before shooting him in your explanation. In other words, they drew guns, he ran, they shot him. That would be double-odd behavior. Him for running, and the police for not identifying themselves and then catching him and just putting a few bullets in him.

    Your explanation just flat out doesn’t make sense when you put it in the context of what would have had to have happened in order for it to play out that way.

  • http://www.robertkbrown.com/ RKB

    I actually edited out the part where I’d written “I’m sure they identified themselves.” But, again, I wasn’t there, so I don’t know how that happened, nor have I ever been in that kind of a situation before.

    Heck, I’ve taught my kids to run away, run fast, from any strangers. We tell them not to believe it if somebody tells them that they’re the police, or that they know us, but to just run and yell and run.

    Again, I’m not trying to suggest that the police did anything wrong here. In a previous life, I worked with law enforcement enough to respect the difficult snap decisions that need to be made.

    I’m just suggesting that it’s not at all unreasonable to think that somebody might have panicked, surrounded by strangers who probably looked like they meant business, and bolted. Fight or Flight is an instinctive way to respond to stressful, potentially dangerous situations.

  • http://www.insignificantthoughts.com/ Vinny

    I’m just suggesting that it’s not at all unreasonable to think that somebody might have panicked, surrounded by strangers who probably looked like they meant business, and bolted. Fight or Flight is an instinctive way to respond to stressful, potentially dangerous situations.

    I’m not arguing that point. I’m just saying that many things would have had to have happened wrong to lead to that point with the police not identifying themselves.

    I don’t know. I’m just surprised that not a single media outlet has even entertained the question. It’s worth knowing. The guy running is what ultimately caused him to be shot. It wasn’t just some trigger-happy cop with a vendetta against dark-skinned folks which seems to be what’s being played in the halls of media mouthpieces.

  • drc

    Just a thought, but why does one never question the authorities first ? Were there confirmations that leave no doubt as to whether or not the police actually yelled stop ? Do we even know for certain that the man shot knew the officers were directing their intentions at him ? He obviousely was in a hurry, he was afterall running to board and tripped in the process of boarding. Before we begin to place the blame on one that isn’t here to defend himself, we should cover all the bases, and not just take the shooter at his word. Afterall, history tells us that lots of bad things happen to innocent people.

  • http://www.insignificantthoughts.com/ Vinny

    Drc,

    What the heck do you mean, no one?

    All anyone has done since this happened is question the authorities. Pay better attention.

  • http://stageleft.info/ stageleft

    While we’re asking questions maybe we should ask why eye witness accounts (as reported on CFRA by Michael Harris) have this guy on the ground and immobilized and then shot 5 times in the head are not getting any play in the western press?

    The press would have us believe that he was shot while in the act of trying to escape, and some have even praised the police for their good aim, but according to accounts by people who were there and actually witnessed the event the guy didn’t have to stop – he was stopped, he was immobilized, and then he was shot point-blank 5 times in the head in what some described as an execution style killing.

    That part has no propaganda value for the good guys does it – could that be why it’s not playing a larger role in this?

  • http://www.insignificantthoughts.com/ Vinny

    Come off it man. That part of the story is not exactly a secret.

    Guy who speaks perfect english comes out of his house in a jacket with a backpack on during a heatwave from a building that police were watching after a suicide bombing and runs like hell for the subway and is shot in the subway.

    Know what? Considering the circumstances I can’t blame the police for blowing the guy’s brains all over the place. A living man who runs from police, in the context of the situation, is much more dangerous.

    Now, as for your “it’s not playing in the Western press,” give me a damned break with that already. You’re not some intrepid journalist discovering some top secret piece of information. The only western press it played in was the AP, Reuters, and CNN, MSNBC, and FOX News.

    You know…

    Tiny little outlets…

    Enough with the “Western press isn’t telling you the whole story” whine. It’s old already.

  • http://stageleft.info/ stageleft

    Come off it man. That part of the story is not exactly a secret.

    And not getting exactly much discussion either, it’s being pretty well passed over for other elements of the drame – my point is that the police had a whole lot of options available to them other than multiple shots to the head, yet, for whatever reason, multiple shots to the head became the chosen option… and few people are questioning that at all.

    You’re not some intrepid journalist discovering some top secret piece of information.

    Never said I was, I am however bringing something to the discussion that few people seem to want to talk about.. It might not be as sexy as a dark skinned man in a bulky jacket runnng through a subway station but it sure as hell is an important part of the story – don’t ‘cha think?

  • http://www.insignificantthoughts.com/ Vinny

    It might not be as sexy as a dark skinned man in a bulky jacket runnng through a subway station but it sure as hell is an important part of the story – don’t ‘cha think?

    Under the circumstances? Absolutely not.