Religion Of Peace Screams For Death of Convert

How very peaceful of them!

KABUL, Afghanistan – Senior Muslim clerics demanded Thursday that an Afghan man on trial for converting from Islam to Christianity be executed, warning that if the government caves in to Western pressure and frees him, they will incite people to “pull him into pieces.”

In an unusual move, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice telephoned President Hamid Karzai on Thursday seeking a “favorable resolution” of the case of Abdul Rahman. The 41-year-old former medical aid worker faces the death penalty under Afghanistan’s Islamic laws for becoming a Christian.

His trial has fired passions in this conservative Muslim nation and highlighted a conflict of values between Afghanistan and its Western backers.

“Rejecting Islam is insulting God. We will not allow God to be humiliated. This man must die,” said cleric Abdul Raoulf, who is considered a moderate and was jailed three times for opposing the Taliban before the hard-line regime was ousted in 2001.

The trial, which began last week, has caused an international outcry. President Bush has said he is “deeply troubled” by the case and expects the country to “honor the universal principle of freedom.”

Good for you, President Bush. I fully expect this guy to feel a blade on his neck.

Fine religion, that Islam. It’s kinda like a roach motel. You can check in, but you can’t check out.

Wanna convert? Nope. Can’t do it. You gotta die.

[tags]islam, christianity[/tags]

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  • justis

    If Muslims ever want to be seen by the rest of the world as the religion of peace they claim to be, the rules on apostasy must be abandoned. But in Islam, Shari’a law is the will of Allah, so modifying it in any way is blasphemy — also punishable by death. Islam is greatly in need of reformation.

  • http://www.insignificantthoughts.com Vinny

    I don’t think Islam needs reformation as much as the Muslims who hold power over the 1.5 billion of them need to be smited from the face of the earth.

    The problem with Islam is that there’s a small and very powerful core of psychos running the show, and your average Muslim is way too scared to do anything about it.

    I think that a certain amount of muslims are okay with the radicals, otherwise 1.5 billion people could easily take over a few hundred and purge them from their ranks, but I think these people have been repressed neglected and abused for so long, they wouldn’t know what to do if they weren’t.

    Take Iraq, for example. Perfect example of people who have never really had freedom suddenly being given it (to some degree) and not knowing what to do with it. They’re used to the paternal domination common in Islamic cultures.

  • justis

    Disclaimer: The following is not an apology or defense of Islamic practices or of Shari’a law, nor is it a condemnation of Christianity. Anyone who misrepresents this comment to suggest any such thing is a cockbag.

    Here’s my rationale behind my last comment. Christianity is almost 2000 years old. In the middle ages, Christians performed many horrifically violent acts — including the institutionalized killing of heretics and apostates. Islam is something like 1400 years old — arguably in its own middle ages. Remember that the Spanish Inquisition began around 1478. The Protestant Reformation, in the next century. I’m not implying this ended the violence (not by a longshot), but it just illustrates that a religion can still change/evolve/branch hundreds of years later.

    Another disclaimer: I’m not saying Catholics were violent and Protestants were not. I’m just illustrating a point about time and change.

    I think it is not necessarily too late for mainstream Islam to evolve into a movement that eschews religious violence. I think most Muslims probably don’t want to see people killed, but are afraid to speak out in fear that their own speech may be construed as blasphemy. How this might occur is unknowable, but I suspect it will be generational. As more young people are exposed to the wider secular world, I hope we’ll find the fundamental extremism of Islamic law fade into the past.

  • http://www.insignificantthoughts.com Vinny

    I think you’re right but wrong. You’re right that Islam is younger than Christianity, and that in terms of years, they should be going through their middle ages right about now. If this were purely a chronological discussion, you would be correct.

    The simple fact is that in the middle ages, lopping off heads and torturing folks were going on all over the world in the name of every god under the sun.

    The difference, though, is that as of 2006, the only religion that’s killing in its own name is Islam. Islam is, quite possibly, the most backward religion in the world at this point in time and while many of my rightwing colleagues will probably chuckle as they say that Islam is stuck in 1450, they are actually correct. Despite the world around them becoming more civilized, many muslims still cling to the wife-beating apostastate murdering ways of their past.

    One could argue that no religion could truly reform during the middle ages unless they were truly revolutionary (to some degree) because of the world around them.

    The world around us has changed dramatically since even the early 1900′s and yet for some reason, Islam has not evolved over its time.

    I bring that up because your assertion that it is potentially something to be solved generationally, while desirable and hopeful, doesn’t seem likely since there have been lots of generations and not a lot of moderation.

    Islam isn’t going to evolve. It’s going to need a revolution from within to change which is exceptionally difficult in a religion with no central figure (ie: the Pope).

    Frankly, I just don’t have the answer, but at least we’re willing to discuss the question, which is a sign that not every discussion about Islam has to be a “those f’ing arabs” type thing.

    I don’t see Islam as a religion of peace. I do, however, think there’s a large number of muslims who would like it to be, and want change, but right now the crazies have the guns and they ain’t about to let go of them.

  • justis

    I bring that up because your assertion that it is potentially something to be solved generationally, while desirable and hopeful, doesn’t seem likely since there have been lots of generations and not a lot of moderation.

    It is a bit optimistic (perhaps unreasonably so), but not completely unfounded. I don’t think trends over previous centuries are an accurate indicator of the future in this case. Though it is cliche, this is the “information age”. People have access to the world as never before. Mass media and the Internet are exposing the Muslim world to international modes of thought, and not only that, but these people are actually able to see the results. The Internet and satellite television change the playing field. Of course we can’t be sure minds will change in a substantial way (quite possibly they won’t), but I suspect the youth will be influenced.

  • justis

    If Muslims ever want to be seen by the rest of the world as the religion of peace they claim to be, the rules on apostasy must be abandoned. But in Islam, Shari’a law is the will of Allah, so modifying it in any way is blasphemy — also punishable by death. Islam is greatly in need of reformation.

  • http://www.insignificantthoughts.com/ Vinny

    I don’t think Islam needs reformation as much as the Muslims who hold power over the 1.5 billion of them need to be smited from the face of the earth.

    The problem with Islam is that there’s a small and very powerful core of psychos running the show, and your average Muslim is way too scared to do anything about it.

    I think that a certain amount of muslims are okay with the radicals, otherwise 1.5 billion people could easily take over a few hundred and purge them from their ranks, but I think these people have been repressed neglected and abused for so long, they wouldn’t know what to do if they weren’t.

    Take Iraq, for example. Perfect example of people who have never really had freedom suddenly being given it (to some degree) and not knowing what to do with it. They’re used to the paternal domination common in Islamic cultures.

  • justis

    Disclaimer: The following is not an apology or defense of Islamic practices or of Shari’a law, nor is it a condemnation of Christianity. Anyone who misrepresents this comment to suggest any such thing is a cockbag.

    Here’s my rationale behind my last comment. Christianity is almost 2000 years old. In the middle ages, Christians performed many horrifically violent acts — including the institutionalized killing of heretics and apostates. Islam is something like 1400 years old — arguably in its own middle ages. Remember that the Spanish Inquisition began around 1478. The Protestant Reformation, in the next century. I’m not implying this ended the violence (not by a longshot), but it just illustrates that a religion can still change/evolve/branch hundreds of years later.

    Another disclaimer: I’m not saying Catholics were violent and Protestants were not. I’m just illustrating a point about time and change.

    I think it is not necessarily too late for mainstream Islam to evolve into a movement that eschews religious violence. I think most Muslims probably don’t want to see people killed, but are afraid to speak out in fear that their own speech may be construed as blasphemy. How this might occur is unknowable, but I suspect it will be generational. As more young people are exposed to the wider secular world, I hope we’ll find the fundamental extremism of Islamic law fade into the past.

  • http://www.insignificantthoughts.com/ Vinny

    I think you’re right but wrong. You’re right that Islam is younger than Christianity, and that in terms of years, they should be going through their middle ages right about now. If this were purely a chronological discussion, you would be correct.

    The simple fact is that in the middle ages, lopping off heads and torturing folks were going on all over the world in the name of every god under the sun.

    The difference, though, is that as of 2006, the only religion that’s killing in its own name is Islam. Islam is, quite possibly, the most backward religion in the world at this point in time and while many of my rightwing colleagues will probably chuckle as they say that Islam is stuck in 1450, they are actually correct. Despite the world around them becoming more civilized, many muslims still cling to the wife-beating apostastate murdering ways of their past.

    One could argue that no religion could truly reform during the middle ages unless they were truly revolutionary (to some degree) because of the world around them.

    The world around us has changed dramatically since even the early 1900′s and yet for some reason, Islam has not evolved over its time.

    I bring that up because your assertion that it is potentially something to be solved generationally, while desirable and hopeful, doesn’t seem likely since there have been lots of generations and not a lot of moderation.

    Islam isn’t going to evolve. It’s going to need a revolution from within to change which is exceptionally difficult in a religion with no central figure (ie: the Pope).

    Frankly, I just don’t have the answer, but at least we’re willing to discuss the question, which is a sign that not every discussion about Islam has to be a “those f’ing arabs” type thing.

    I don’t see Islam as a religion of peace. I do, however, think there’s a large number of muslims who would like it to be, and want change, but right now the crazies have the guns and they ain’t about to let go of them.

  • justis

    I bring that up because your assertion that it is potentially something to be solved generationally, while desirable and hopeful, doesn’t seem likely since there have been lots of generations and not a lot of moderation.

    It is a bit optimistic (perhaps unreasonably so), but not completely unfounded. I don’t think trends over previous centuries are an accurate indicator of the future in this case. Though it is cliche, this is the “information age”. People have access to the world as never before. Mass media and the Internet are exposing the Muslim world to international modes of thought, and not only that, but these people are actually able to see the results. The Internet and satellite television change the playing field. Of course we can’t be sure minds will change in a substantial way (quite possibly they won’t), but I suspect the youth will be influenced.