Jun 15 2006
What a week…
I really don’t know where to start with this, to be honest, so I’m just going to turn this into the narrative to end all narratives and hope it makes some kind of sense when it’s all done.
Two weeks ago, Beth was registering for classes, and it forced me to take a look at my expenses and try to trim the fat as much as possible. I cancelled a bunch of extraneous bills and consolidated others. In other words, I did what I needed to do to save a buck. One of many things I needed to cancel was AOL. Frankly, the only reason I kept it was to troubleshoot some of the suits’ AOL installs at work. I hadn’t used it in an eternity, so the time had come. The account was going to be closed.
Before I did it, I thought, “Ya know, I’ve heard about the horror stories with cancelling AOL, let’s record this convo.” I hooked up my recorder and made the call. I never expected what I got. Honestly. I knew it was going to be bad. In fact, I was expecting it to be extremely difficult. What I wasn’t expecting, however, was the utter assault I got the second the call started. In the back of my mind, though, I kept thinking “stay polite as long as you can; it’ll make a stronger point.” So I did. I pretty much kept my composure through most of the call.
Up until the point where the guy started harassing me about what I used the computer for. I mean, in the end, what difference did it make? I don’t want the account. As Anthony from the Opie and Anthony show put it, “Who gives a shit if I use the computer specifically to cancel AOL?” (Yes, Opie and Anthony ran my audio on their show and I didn’t even send it to them!)
Anyway, the conversation got progressively more testy at that point, ending with Jon, the AOL rep telling me the following after I told him I wasn’t interested in another sales pitch:
‘Kay. If you want me to cancel this account, you’re going to let me speak and, and give this paragraph. ‘Kay? ‘Cause if not, we can just argue all day, I d- I really don’t care, to be honest with you. But, you’re going to listen to me if you want this turned off. So: can I speak now?
At that point I gave in just to get the call over with, got the shpiel, got transferred to the recording that gave me the confirmation number and got the hell out of there. Then I sat there at my desk in utter disbelief. I had not only gotten an interesting call, I had just recorded what could commonly be called gold. Real gold, too. Not the kind that turns green when you sweat.
I didn’t do anything with it. I knew I was going to post it on here, I just wanted to wait a bit and see if I changed my mind. I didn’t, and let it fly on Tuesday morning.
Brilliant move on my part. From that point on, things just started moving REALLY quickly.
First, I had the bright idea to send it to Consumerist, one of my all-time favorite consumer advocacy arenas. Of course Ben posted it immediately. Hell, Joel Johnson even loved it, and we know how powerful he is (if you don’t, you’re an idiot; go read some other site you don’t belong here). When Ben posted it, he threw a direct link to the MP3 on this site in there. Within mere minutes, IT was down. As was Slobokan, LV Soda Pop, and three other sites on our server. I got 272 inbound referrals, all of which simultaneously downloaded the 3 meg MP3. In other words, server go boom. We were all down for about an hour.
When we got back up, I jokingly told Slobokan I should submit the story to Digg.com. His exact words at that point are recorded below for all posterity:
Slobokan: what the heck, digg it man
And with that, I made the post that changed the life of IT forever. Now, I should preface this quite clearly. I’m not a big fan of Digg. I make no bones about it, and have written a million posts bagging on them. I don’t like the mob mentality. I don’t like that the site has strayed from tech news. I don’t like a lot of things. One thing you can’t argue with, though, is that Digg is hardcore when it comes to consumer advocacy, and that’s why this post went there.
Then it started.
IT got slower.
And slower…
And then it was down…
And I mean down. Not just down, down down. The server load, at its peak hit 89%. I kid you not. We were getting blasted off the internet and convincingly so. I’ve been DDOS’ed before. This was a thousand times worse. Everything just stopped still.
We tried some triage stuff. Getting in, clearing out some WordPress plugins, disabling the anti-spam stuff I was running. Turning on WP-Cache. Nothing did anything. We were getting blasted and it was only getting worse. Finally, at around 6:30, we replaced the main page of insignificant thoughts with a banner you probably saw that said we’d be back when the server calmed down.
Around 10:30 I tried to compile the logs to check the damage. No dice. AW Stats sat on the logs for almost two hours before I gave up. In Cpanel, I got a hint of what was coming. I burned through 31 gigabytes of bandwidth in approximately 8 hours. To put that number in perspective, I go through about 8 a month. Hitwise, I made about 510,000 hits in that time period, compared to 360,000 for a typical month.
Yep. I got hammered.
Since IT was down, and I had nothing better to do, I started reading the comments on Digg. Typically, people were behind me, but there were large chunks of people who thought I was a fraud… I was wrong… The call was staged. Feh. Whatever. Two thousand diggs later, they were obviously in the minority so screw ‘em. I went to bed, and woke up the next morning. Checking the server logs, I saw we just had error after error after error. HTTPD (the http daemon, basically the service that serves up the pages) was up, down, up, down. My account was suspended (we thought it would help) then unsuspended (it didn’t). Basically, we wrecked the server in a profound way. But, with a static front page, things were calming down. The audio was gone, but were still getting bombed with hits from mirrors put up the day before by digg readers who wanted to help (I’m grateful to each and everyone of you by the way, if any of you read this).
Unfortunately, the problems didn’t end. Wednesday saw the audio picked up by Gear Live and his podcast (he did a special podcast of just my audio!), Wizbang and their podcast (Thanks for the support Charlie!), and more sites than I’ve ever even seen. Looking through my referral logs, we were getting hundreds of hits each from Anandtech, Metafilter, Digg, Boing Boing, TotalFark, Arstechnica and Digg, not to mention people leaving continuous streams of comments on the site through the mirrors. Basically, even with the site down, I was still getting hammered. At least things were calming down, though.
I went to work.
I was in one of my friends’ office and I was telling a few people what had happened the day before. We were joking around about it and such. Then, I went back to my office, and there was a voicemail on my mobile. It was my friend Paul. “10:30. You’re on Opie and Anthony.” I damn near fainted. I had just missed them talking about me. My audio, despite me not even submitting it to them had made it onto XM Satellite Radio, and was beamed to between 2 and 3 million listeners.
And the hits just kept on coming. In the early afternoon, I got an email from Dru Sefton wanting to discuss my story. We exchanged a few e-mails and she and I scheduled an interview for Monday night at 8pm. I was quite pleased. A mainstream media interview for little old me!
The day rolled on. IT was still down, but so be it. People were still seeing the story.
Nothing really eventful happened the rest of yesterday.
Today was the big end.
I put IT back up this morning, this time putting the MP3 on Putfile (thank GOD for Putfile!) to conserve bandwidth. Of course, server load has been pretty high all day, but I was managing. I also noticed that one of my heroes embarked on a new project this morning. Jason Calacanis (I bow before the in a completely manly way, Jason) decided that Digg was okay, but that they needed a touch of real journalism, so he launched Netscape.com, a brilliant mashup of the social news networking site Digg and real pavement-pounding journalism. In other words, Digg, but for people who don’t just want a buzz story and would like some followup and investigation. I was hooked immediately.
Then I saw it. Second story from the top was my cancellation story. Apparently, some diggers submitted it to test the integrity of Jason and his team. They ended up wearing lots of egg on their faces because of the two stories that bashed AOL, Jason left both of them. In other words, he has every bit the integrity I always knew he had.
Imagine launching a site, and on launch day, you’re getting assaulted by people who hate you, and you have enough confidence to just leave it all in place?
Later in the day, I got an e-mail from one of the anchors at Netscape. Dakota Smith was looking for a comment from me on the story. I thought it was kinda cool that she found me, so of course I volunteered. In her e-mail, though, was the following:
I’m an anchor for the new Netscape.com…your story about your dealings with AOL has been voted up on our site and I was hoping I could ask you a few quick questions about the whole ordeal.
We’ve already gotten a statement from AOL about the matter (did you know the guy you talked to was fired?) but want to follow-up with you.
WOW! A social site that follows up and pursues stories! AWESOME! And wait. Was that what I think it was? Jon was FIRED?
Sure enough, on that same story appeared the statement from AOL via spokesperson Nicholas Graham.
“At AOL, we have zero-tolerance for customer care incidents like this - which is deeply regrettable and also absolutely inexcusable. The employee in question violated our customer service guidelines and practices, and everything that AOL believes to be important in customer care - chief among them being respect for the member, and swiftly honoring their requests. This matter was dealt with immediately and appropriately, and the employee cited here is no longer with the Company.”
I had nothing to say at that point. I was basically stunned speechless. I had never actually complained, although I did bag Jon really badly in a survey about my experience with him, but somehow it got back to AOL and they shitcanned him. Makes you wonder how many other times he did this kind of thing, huh?
Then came the time to do my interview for Netscape:
Netscape Anchor Dakota Smith conducted an IM interview with Vincent Ferrari, the blogger behind Insignificant Thoughts and a 30-year-old Bronx resident, this morning. Here’s an excerpt of their IM exchange:
Dakota: What led you to post this?
Ferrari: Well, I had heard the horror stories about canceling AOL, and decided to post it. Honestly, I’m always looking for something interesting on my site, and this seemed to be something my readers would be interested in.
Dakota: For you, what was the most surprising part of the whole exchange?
Ferrari: Well first, the part about asking for my dad. I mean, I’m 30 years old, and both the card and the account are in my name…. Secondly…
Ferrari: When he told me he could “stall me” all day. I couldn’t believe he was going to make me wait just so he could cancel my account.
Dakota: What happened after? Did AOL reach out to you after or anything?
Ferrari: All I got from them afterward was a survey that asked (ironically enough) if Jonathan met my needs. Other than that, I’ve not heard a single word from AOL.
Dakota: Did you know the guy got fired? How do you feel about that?
Ferrari: Honestly, before your e-mail, I had no idea. I don’t know how I feel. Honestly? I’m not going to shed any tears for the guy. It sucks that he got fired, but maybe he’ll learn from it.
Dakota: Is it just AOL, you think, or just the nature of customer service in general?
Ferrari: Well, I think it is actually the nature of customer service to be honest. I think retention people are particularly bad because they can never accept that someone wants to cancel…
Ferrari: If I’m predisposed to canceling, just let me do it. I’m not staying no matter what. Retention people are the worst.
Ferrari: I don’t mind a token effort, but aggressive pursuing is really not appropriate.
Ferrari: Jonathan was definitely aggressive about it and wasn’t listening to me at all.
Dakota: They must be so bored with their jobs that they lash out…
Ferrari: Well, I know what it’s like. Their performance is basically “how many people did you keep today?” Under that kind of pressure, we’d all probably crack.
Ferrari: Doesn’t make him a bad person, just a guy in the wrong position for his skills or whatever.”
I’d say I was infinitely fair.
Look. I had no intention of getting this guy fired. Honestly, I was waiting for this to blow over a bit before I bitched to AOL. Really, all I wanted was an apology and a serious reprimand. I’m not totally comfortable with the fact that I cost this guy his job, but in reality, I’m not broken up over it either. Bummed is probably the closest word for it. Come to think of it, he cost himself his own job. Maybe in his next job, he’ll be more careful who he tells off.
So that’s the end, so far. Today, I came home from work to a call from AOL. We’ll see what they wanted tomorrow. Of course, I’ll record it, and of course that recording won’t be online (not doing that again any time soon, the other folks on this server would kick my ass!).
There were people who thought the story was fake. Obviously it wasn’t seeing as the guy got sacked.
There are people who think I got the guy fired. Screw each and every last one of you. I went in there completely polite. Instead of making it possible to cancel, he insisted on telling me how much my father used AOL when he doesn’t even have the software on his computer!
To the people who put up with me borking the server, sorry! What more can I say!?
And that ends that.
For now.
If anything else happens, I’ll let you know.
Technorati Tags: aol, cancellation
June 16th, 2006 at 1:07 am
glad to see he got what he deserved.
June 16th, 2006 at 1:09 am
Dude. It all starts with a little planning — imagine the story without the audio. Congrats on weathering the traffic, and on sharing an amazing phone call.
June 16th, 2006 at 1:27 am
Just one quick thought… you didn’t “cost him his job.” You behaved rationally and politely. His firing was the result of his actions. If you had posted a recording of him being polite and helpful he would not have been fired for it.
June 16th, 2006 at 1:32 am
A Work In Progress
Cancel The Account…
Vinny has had quite the week, and it all started with a small, simple phone call to AOL, asking them to cancel his account…….
June 16th, 2006 at 2:50 am
Man, that was freakin awesome from start to finish. Fuck AOL for putting you and countless others (including me) through that kind of crap. If this attention gets them to clean up their act, then how great is that?!
A funny anecdote: I forwarded your link to a bunch of my fellow techs at work and told them that an online buddy of mine was going through AOL cencellation hell, and had some audio of it. By the time I got the e-mail out, you were already Dugg big time, and everyone thought I just grabbed a Digg story and passed it off as a casual discovery. Hilarious!
Anyway, good work, man. I can’t wait to find out what AOL has to say to you. I think they ought to make a press release to apologize and announce big changes to their cancellation system. But I won’t hold my breath.
June 16th, 2006 at 4:17 am
Great story, wonderful to hear some of AOL’s crap came home to roost upon one of their perpetrators.
One thing: The mp3 file you posted on putfile was wrapped in a tag that specified it as a Windows Media Player file. WMP on the Mac platform doesn’t play mp3’s, only on Windows machines. So the “other 10% of us” had to View Source, find the URL of the actual mp3 file and paste it into our location windows. Gotaa watch those lage corporations who think they are the world!
June 16th, 2006 at 4:46 am
Good job, Vinny. I know that this is all a lot in a short amount of time but you did good. ANYONE who lays ANY blame on you for ANYTHING concerning this whole deal is so far out of touch that they don’t matter.
Also, I personally think that Jon, although he was a dick, was doing what AOHell expected. There have simply been too many cancellation horror stories to believe otherwise.
Good luck and thanks for the great reading over the years.
June 16th, 2006 at 2:47 pm
I would like to suggest that you submit this to BoingBoing.net. This is right up their alley.
June 16th, 2006 at 2:53 pm
Already been there. They posted the original and the followup after the guy got fired.
June 16th, 2006 at 11:17 pm
The Daily Thing » Blog Archive » links for 2006-06-17
[...] insignificant thoughts » Blog Archive » What a week… AOL’ers watch out. If you decide you want to cancel your account make sure you have your tape recorder handy. Here’s the story of one AOL’er who got more than he bargained for when he tried to cancel and the aftermath the whole even wrought. (tags: aol customerservice business) [...]
June 16th, 2006 at 11:31 pm
He deserved to be fired.8O
June 17th, 2006 at 9:25 am
vin- you made it into today’s post! and ny1 is showing the article on their “in the papers” segment! can I have your autograph?
June 17th, 2006 at 3:24 pm
You were far more tolerant than I would have been…..
June 17th, 2006 at 7:10 pm
Congratulations on the wild week and on exposing a clear problem. I hope all businesses take some time to actually listen to those conversations that callers are routinely warned are being recorded for “training purposes.”
I cannot agree with the folks who think that the operator you had to deal with was either:
A) Doing his job
or
B) Doing what AOL expected him to do.
Neither of these arguments are all that logical considering the consequences.
If AOL expected this kind of treatment, there would have been no fallout, certainly no severing of ties, after this recording had been made public. There would have more likely been a claim that the tape must have been somehow “doctored” to the extent that only the portions that made the caller look good and the company look bad were used. You’ll note that AOL didn’t say that.
The notion that the “retainer’s” job is really just to piss you off doesn’t really hold water, either. On the contrary, it’s their job to be your ultimate advocate, to go “against” the “big guys,” convince you that they’re the ONLY one there who’s really in YOUR corner, and then promise that they’re going to give you a deal that no one else is ever going to get just because you’re you! And if such an offer still isn’t enough, they’re supposed to still be friendly and cordial enough that if you leave and then decide that you want to come back, you won’t have such a bad taste in your mouth that you’d never consider them again.
To put it another way, there’s no reason why a retainer should hope to make you so angry that the ONLY reasonable option you’re left with is to never do business with the company for the rest of your life!
People switch companies all the time. And many of them try out other companies they’re convinced will be better, find out they’re not, then come back. A smart business would never require its employees to prevent that return from ever happening!
June 17th, 2006 at 7:39 pm
Wow, Same thing happened to me a few years back when I tryed to cancelled my account. Actually the same lines you have in your quotes was actually said to me. Makes you wonder how much the company actually forces the sales people to pitch this. I wish I would of recorded the conversation, only difference,it sounded like a call center outside the USA. I know if AOL was the last way ever in the future to get online I would still not ever be a member again. I would sell my computer before ever subsribing to AOL!
June 18th, 2006 at 11:25 am
And here’s the link from the New York Times (near the end of the article, as well as in the sidebar):
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/17/technology/17online.html
June 20th, 2006 at 8:33 am
The Club for Growth Blog
Bad AOL!…
CNBC’s Squawk Box reported this morning that a blogger recorded his phone conversation when he tried to cancel his membership with AOL. Apparently, the blogger heard a few horror stories about how hard it was to actually cancel an AOL……
June 20th, 2006 at 11:50 am
This phone conversation sounds very very familiar. Something which I went through with aol. Where did you get this sound clip?
June 20th, 2006 at 11:57 am
I recorded it
Original source = best.
June 20th, 2006 at 12:09 pm
I was watching msnbc this morning and it grabbed my attention when I thoguht I heard my comments. I mean, maybe it is coincidence, but everything is almost IDENTICAL to my phone call to AOL about a year ago. except for the sound of your voice. If I am not mistaken, re-recording the original conversation basically word for word and then using your own name and changing the ferrariboxer screen name (which was my father’s) into your own (popsferrari) is plagiarism right?
Again, maybe I am over-reacting and this could all just be a big coincidence, and I apoliogize for wasting your time if it is, but I suggest you contact me with your information at spennella@earthlink.net and have a good lawyer in line incase this isn’t just coincidence.
June 20th, 2006 at 12:30 pm
AOL already responded to the incident and fired the rep in question. There is no doubt that the call took place and that it was me in it in anyone’s mind except for yours.
And don’t threaten me anymore. You wanna get a lawyer involved, go right ahead. I have plenty of proof the call was me, including corroborating witnesses at AOL who heard the call in their own recordings.
Don’t waste my time anymore, pal.
June 20th, 2006 at 3:19 pm
I’m a bit skeptical that this was just a case of a rogue employee. My guess is that Jon’s boss and his boss and his boss… all don’t much care what the Jon’s of the retention department do as long as they keep the customer. Jon is probably just a sacrificial lamb.
June 20th, 2006 at 6:11 pm
Well done. Since the call was recorded on your end as well, Jon was probably fired more for appearance’s sake than for going outside the boundaries of internal guidelines.
In my experience, this behavior is standard operating procedure for all sorts of services: magazine subscriptions, wireless phone, satellite and cable television, high-speed internet. To such companies, retention means creating cumbersome termination of service procedures rather than offering undeniable value and service at competitive prices to keep customers happy and to attract more business.
Cheers.
June 20th, 2006 at 7:49 pm
I feel like signing up for AOL just so I can have fun trying to cancel the account…:twisted:
June 20th, 2006 at 9:10 pm
I’ve had the same experience with them. Did they transfer you right after to one of thier “partners?” When I tried to cancel AOL they transfered me right after to someone trying to sell me long distance. It’s ridiculous. I don’t care what they say or how much the apologize, thier customer service reps aren’t going to change.
Now all you have to do is completely delete the stupid program from your computer. Be sure to check every single folder in your registry. I’m still finding AOL in it to this day and I deleted the prgram over a year ago!!!
June 20th, 2006 at 9:46 pm
I had a similiar experience with aol, it was almost impossible to cancel.. I had attempted many different times to cancel and aol continued to charge my banking account.. They did have to reverse the charges but was never given my full amount back.. I believe this went on from Jan 2005 to Oct 2005, where I finally received a letter (demanding it in writing) that I had cancelled my account and aol would NOT debit my banking account..
June 21st, 2006 at 12:22 am
If Jon was fired because of this call, then many more of ‘em deserve to go! I stopped using AOL 6 years ago (it came free with my PC :evil:) and it was a heck of a time cancelling it (took me 30 minutes, they offered to cut my bill in half, add more hours a month, etc. Boo!). But it didn’t stop there…I was called twice to three times a week for months asking me to come back…AHHH! I threatened to charge them with harrassment if they didn’t stop calling and that I was logging every call they made to me.
THANK YOU for finally brining that horrible company with their over-zealous customer service to light. I never went back and I never will!:mrgreen:
June 21st, 2006 at 12:22 am
A former AOL employee had commented on this situation.
Link
June 21st, 2006 at 2:39 am
I experienced the same thing when i tried to cancel my AOL account. They talked me into getting a free extra month and give it another try. I did it just to get them off the phone. Then, when i called back to cancel ‘again’, i got the same runaround. This appears to be standard operating procedure at AOL.
June 21st, 2006 at 8:13 am
Just saw your story on the Today Show and wanted to say that we have also experienced this from AOL when cancelling an account. My mother has also. We will NEVER go through AOL again because of this harrassment they give when you want to cancel. Thanks for making this public, it’s time for AOL to realize they can’t do this & we are all fed up with it. I have cancelled accts. w/other internet providers before and never had this problem.
Good luck!!!
June 21st, 2006 at 8:21 am
Great job, actually surprised he was fired as this is standard procedure at AOL, but he did actually get a outright rude to you maybe you should have kept him going all day. It used to be simple to cancel in the early days of AOL, done entirely by your self at keyword Cancel. When it got to the point where the minus overtook the plus they made it take a phone call. I went through a similar thing a few years ago. I canceled the credit card and got a new card to get it “cancelled” but I like what you did better. Anyone hear from Jonathan? I’m sure he has visited here!
June 21st, 2006 at 8:35 am
Boy, I can’t believe it! I woke up this morning and your segment was on Today. Just Monday, I went through the same thing, only it didn’t get testy (usually I’ll get annoyed, but for some reason I was amused by the whole thing, I wish I’d taped it though, cause it was a ridiculous conversation) and he was obviously staying on his script. I bet we were on the phone 5 minutes though, with me repeating, “I haven’t used it for years, why would I use it now? I’m happy with the service I have used for YEARS , why would I go back?, No, I wouldn’t like a new AOL browser I’m happy with the one I use now, cancel my account. Cheers Vincent!
June 21st, 2006 at 11:17 am
Heather’s “Marketing at Microsoft” Blog
I don’t know how to make this any clearer for you: cancel my account!…
Saw Vincent on the Today Show this AM. He’s the guy that taped his call to AOL to cancel his account…….
June 21st, 2006 at 11:47 am
I have had the same experience Vinnie did only more extreme (cutting to the chase, AOL has now put a collection agency on my posterior for the cancelled account they can’t gather money for any more!).
In several states now, including Ohio, AOL has lost class action suits based on these policies. I live in FLORIDA and am looking for other AOL victims (cancellation problems only — lawsuits have to be specific) who want to join a class action suit.
If you live in Florida and are interested you can email me at Rakuflames@gmail.com.
You can visit my blog at
http://aolgrumbles.blogspot.com
Thanks!
Susan
June 21st, 2006 at 12:47 pm
Out of curiosity, before you recorded the call, did you advise the rep you were doing so? If so, kudos to you! If not, boy what an idiot you are! Now that this jerk got canned, he has EVERY RIGHT TO SUE TO YOU TO HELL AND BACK!
June 21st, 2006 at 1:00 pm
I had a similar experience with AOL this past winter. It took me almost 45 minutes to cancel the account. They WOULDN’T let me cancel the account, so I had to talk to the manager, who tried to give me all these benefits about how AOL gives you spy ware protection and Anti-Virus etc. He tried talking to me like a two year old. He started quizzing me about Anti-Virus programs and Spy ware that I would use in place of AOL (I already had them installed – despite AOL’s ‘spectacular’ software ), trying to make conversation and convince me that AOL’s protection is better than the top Anti-Virus programs out there. I’m positive that I have more computer education than this guy and he tried to sound smart like he knew what he was talking about with computers and making sure things are running properly. If he had real computer knowledge, he wouldn’t be a customer support representative with AOL and would be doing something in the computer industry like consulting or systems analysis like I do.
By the time I got off the phone call I was furious. On top of the 45 minutes I wasted, we were 2 days into the new billing cycle, and they refused to prorate it for the 2 days. It’s not their “policy”. Their “policy” is to fool people into thinking that AOL gives you high speed, anti-virus, and all these bs chat rooms while ripping you off since you have to pay for AOL and cable or DSL on top of it in order to get this ‘amazing’ AOL highspeed. AOL is a waste of money, its slows down your computer with this garbage software they want you to have and they charge ridiculous amounts of money.
Vincent – like you I basically said “cancel, no, cancel, cancel” repeat x30. I didn’t yell at the guy, but I was forceful with what I said, but it was like talking to a wall. All AOL thinks about is $$$. I love how they issue you an apology since you exposed them for the fraudulent business that they are. If you hadn’t recorded the conversation, Jon would have gotten a congratulations in the office. I’m going on 6 months of blissful AOL freedom….no apology in sight….but at least this way I have $30 more in my pocket and AOL doesn’t.
Thanks for the great post and hopefully this convinces more people NOT to join AOL or maybe even try out cancelling AOL on their own to see the madness.
June 21st, 2006 at 1:02 pm
Good going with AOL! Their customer service has been horrible forever. I had the opposite problem. Last year, they vanished my account of 14 years for no reason. I made many phone calls to get it, and my email identity, back to no avail. Moronic people, stupid suggestions and no help at all. My case was eventually ‘bumped’ to a Program Manager who did not return my calls and blocked my emails. Way to go AOL
Keep the customers who don’t want you, dump the customers who do!
June 21st, 2006 at 1:59 pm
Vinnie:
Thank you from the many of us who have had to put up with such abuse in the past. It’s about time that “Customer Service Agents” realized that we are not there for their amusement.
Steve
June 21st, 2006 at 2:18 pm
Don’t know where you are, but here… “Texas Penal Code § 16.02: So long as a wire, oral or electronic communication — including the radio portion of any cordless telephone call — is not recorded for a criminal or tortious purpose, anyone who is a party to the communication, or who has the consent of a party, can lawfully record the communication and disclose its contents.”
(State-by-state summary of laws regarding recording conversations can be found at http://www.rcfp.org/taping/)
We may need to explain some of those big words to Chris, but I would be really surprised if this were a legal issue at all. And by the way, please don’t sweat ol’ Jon losing his job for another minute. AOL requires their customer retention associates to make reasonable attempts to keep you, NOT to badger you into submission, belittle you, and threaten to tell your daddy. That guy got exactly what he had coming. What a jerk.
Also, I may be in need of web hosting services really soon. I will definitely regard Second Rate Hosting as my top choice when it’s time. Keep up the good work!
June 21st, 2006 at 2:48 pm
Way to go! AOl can spout all the BS they want about this having been an “aberration”, but sooner or later they’ll have to face the fact that it’s not. In 2000 AOL overdrew my checking account AFTER I cancelled my service because they never stopped the EFT billing. When I called and complained and asked for a refund, they told me that they had no record of my call and they could not issue a refund, even though I no longer had access to their service (hm funny thing). In the end, I had to talk to my credit union and close my account to stop them from billing me. Oh, and by the way Chris… in most states, only ONE person has to know that a conversation is being recorded for that conversation to be admissible in court. So, really, the AOL rep most likely can’t sue him. Besides, what the rep did borders on customer abuse which is entirely unacceptable.
June 21st, 2006 at 3:19 pm
It ain’t just AOL, sir. I had nearly the same thing happen to me when I tried to cancel Earthlink about six months ago.
June 21st, 2006 at 4:29 pm
congrats - came in at the end of your segment on msnbc and then looked all of this up on the web. the customer service rep at AOL was reading from a script, as do all customer service reps. that “jon” appeared to be more flustered than others, was a sign he’d pretty much had it with his job. aside from that, the person who has posted here about you taping a call without the other party’s knowledge does carry some weight. most states have laws on the books about taping phone conversations without the other person’s permission. while i applaud what you did - caught AOL red-handed (and i’ve had similar problems with them years ago, so nothing has changed) - you may have opened yourself up to a liability issue if this person wishes to pursue it. most likely, he will not, but i think that the attorney general of his state can come after you if he wishes to file a complaint. it just gets really sticky - i used to work as a freelancer and would tape the interviewees but i always had to ask permission first - it can make the other party less outgoing in the way they deal with you, but that’s the law…sigh. nevertheless, good work here. AOL was fast to cover their corporate ass in a procedure that they have endorsed for years.
June 21st, 2006 at 4:39 pm
congrats - came in at the end of your segment on msnbc and then looked all of this up on the web. the customer service rep at AOL was reading from a script, as do all customer service reps. that “jon” appeared to be more flustered than others, was a sign he’d pretty much had it with his job, his customers, and needed to go. however, there is no real assurance that AOL did indeed fire him since you don’t know his last name.
just be glad you got someone in the States instead of outsourced to India. the software company i worked for outsourced ALL customer service complaints to India, including those who had already dealt with India and vehemently objected to being sent there again - yep, we sent ‘em right back to India.
aside from that, another person who has posted here mentioned the problem of taping a call without the other party’s knowledge. most states have laws on the books about taping phone conversations without the other person’s permission. while i applaud what you did - caught AOL red-handed (and i’ve had similar problems with them years ago, so nothing has changed) - you may have opened yourself up to a liability issue if this person or AOL wishes to pursue it. most likely, he/they will not, but i think that the attorney general of his state can come after you if he wishes to file a complaint.
it just gets really sticky - i used to work as a freelancer and would tape the interviewees for my stories, but i always had to ask permission first - it can make the other party less outgoing in the way they deal with you, but that’s the law…sigh.
nevertheless, congrats on nailing AOL and making them stand at attention to what is their POLICY when someone tries to cancel. AOL was fast to cover their corporate ass in a procedure that they have endorsed for years. i hope they lose more customers as a result of this.
June 21st, 2006 at 5:18 pm
Here I am to add my name to the list of frustrated consumers who tried to cancel AOL and met tons of resistance! It took me 3 1/2 hours and 5 different AOL reps to understand that I wanted to cancel, and even then, I was billed for service the next month. I have finally gotten my account to disappear and I am grateful to hear that others (countless others!) have had this same problem. Vince, I listened to your call on CNBC and it was word for word what I got when I called. It sounds like they tried to use the firing of that rep as an example to others, but it is obvious that it was not a result of just one person. It’s too bad that there isn’t much pride in customer service these days. Thank you for sharing this with all of us. Misery loves company…and now we know that we are not alone!
June 21st, 2006 at 5:46 pm
Way to go!! It took me 3 hours and three different reps from AOL to cancel my account. Worst customer service I ever experienced. I tell everyone I know to stop using them.
June 21st, 2006 at 6:37 pm
I had a similar experience with AOL just over a year ago.
At the time I had signed up for their two month free trial for my dad and since he hadn’t used it during those two months I called to terminate the account. I learnt a few thing from that call.
They have specially designated people just for clients who call in to cancel. That is their only function. The lady I spoke with mentioned it but I have since forgotten the term.
I must have spent 10 minutes with her trying to cancel the account. She was out east in a Nova Scotia call centre. She kept trying to keep the account open by having me change to an hourlly billing account even though I told her I wanted to cancel it outright. She also gave me her direct phone number. I can still remember that even at the end of the call she told me that she was giving me a code to show that it was cancelled BUT that if I were to login again to the aol account, even if by accident, I would start to be billed once more! I made sure I disconnected the phone cable from the modem of that computer. BTW, my dad has had the computer all this time wasting away and is only interested in me looking up information for him even though I’ve repeatedly told him to do it himself.
Cheers.
June 21st, 2006 at 6:49 pm
At least you got an English speaking person to talk to. Before I cancelled my account, every phone call i made was routed to another country.
June 21st, 2006 at 6:54 pm
I can tell you having been employed in the AOL customer retention department back in the late 90’s that the pressure on them to save accounts is tremendous, many leave because some managers put so much stress on retention. I’ve been told it is actually better now due to having to relax some due to complaints/lawsuits. There is also quotas and huge incentives, it is basically inbound telemarketing…when you put in the software for the free month you are setting up for a long sales pitch, kind of like the people who go out to timeshares for the vacation. They only hire salespeople in that department…and believe me the people in that department at least did get great incentives for keeping you, and feared for their job if they weren’t saving many people in their cue. By the way AOL customer saves is not scripted or at least it wasn’t. You are trained on how to field questions to get interests and other things to lure people into staying longer.
June 21st, 2006 at 6:56 pm
I had exactly the same problem when I cancelled my account with AOL a couple of years ago. The rep refused to cancel the account unless I gave him a reason. I finally told him that my reason was that he was an asshole. He accused me of sexual harrassment (I am not sure what that said about him?). Go get’em.
June 21st, 2006 at 7:17 pm
I had the same experience a few years ago when I cancelled - they finally cancelled my account but then I got a letter from them - the letter said I needed to verify I had asked to be cancelled and that if I did not verify my request, via the letter, then they would assume I really didn’t want to cancel and my account would stay active.
AOL can apologize all they want but it is too common a problem not to be a script the agents are to follow - if they fired the guy shame on them - I am sure he was doing what he was instructed to do - which was “try to talk them out of cancelling at all costs because your job is on the line if you are too agreeable to the cancel request”
June 21st, 2006 at 7:20 pm
i have had this experience myself and I have worked as a retention agent for a major cellular company and that phone call is about the norm for the “retention” industry. it is actually the norm for customer service these days. i worked in call centers for 12 years and progressively saw customer service become a joke. it is a rule to stall customers in retention, it is a rule to keep going even if the customer gets pissed off, and most of these places hire individuals who lack integrity and professionalism. i had to leave the retention position (one that paid very well) because i could not take the lack of ethics. and you were right about the supervisor thing. they don’t want to take calls, they hate taking calls, and they will walk away from their desks if they think you have an escalation. most of them don;t even know how to do the job…they have just been hired because they worked for some other shady organization and posted great but fake numbers. even though my starting salary was only $30000, i could bonus up to $5K a month in my position. sups could bonus up to $10K. so you see why a sup would have been no help. anyway, i am so glad that you did this. when i first started working in a call center in ‘94 I worked for a company that actually cared about customers. i watched them change to a “keep them on the phone and give them nothing” mentality within 10 years. i stayed because the money was great and the hours were what i needed. your call helped me realize that I made the right decision to get a graduate degree. maybe i’ll look for a position with some consumer watchdog group. anyway, you did a good thing. don’t worry about that guy getting fired. trust me, what he was doing was an everyday thing and his supervisors knew about it. he has probably been paid hand over fist because of these tactics and so has his sup.
June 21st, 2006 at 7:35 pm
i forgot to mention that i have worked with many people who simply do not cancel yor account for a couple of months, just so they can make their quota. also, i sat right next to people who reactivated accounts and counted them as sales. these accounts are never cancelled until the poor customer calls back in. of course, there are no notes so they end up paying for two new months of service and a cancellation fee. meanwhile, the rep and sup have won a vacation and bonused thousands of dollars. trust me, these companies don’t care. also, reps will put you on hold while you are talking and talk to the person next to them, totally tuning you out. when you stop talking they come back on and say something like ” i can understand that”. sorry to vent but i think things would be different if people knew what was going on. there is no accountability in the customer service industry. the head on my department reprimaned me once for doing the right thing and correcting a customer’s account. he actually said to me “that is not our problem and you should have let another department try to avoid giving him his money back. you wasted time, time you could have been using to get more sales”..true story.
June 21st, 2006 at 8:31 pm
I think the rep was probably doing what he was expected to do. The only reason he was fired was because of bad publicity and that AOL had to show that some kind of action was taken to make it appear that the behavior is not what they want. If he is just a customer service rep, why would he argue with you? I mean, whether it be by way of a bonus, or something else… what would have been his motivation for denying you the cancellation if it wasn’t something having to do with his job and how it was expected.
Customer service reps don’t go into work thinking “hey how can I make the customer’s life miserable”. Most of them want to help, but are often restricted by company policies (whether written or verbal). And I don’t think the rep’s motivation was job security either… AOL has millions of subscribers and probably as many joining each day as there are cancelling.
While I understand that your intention was not to cost him his job, his release was more likely due to bad publicity than his responses to you. Most of his responses sounded scripted, like — if you get this comment, say this… Telemarketers have those kinds of scripts to guilt people into buying a product. I’m sure AOL has something similar.
Plus, with 545 hrs of usage in the previous month, someone was using the account… that was 22 days worth of service non-stop. I understand that you have other people on the account, but it’s still a lot of time to say that you don’t use it.
Another thing… the rep asked why you were cancelling… that was probably part of his job too. It’s called feedback. AOL wants to know why someone is cancelling so they can make improvements. Should he have been such a pain, no, but again, probably part of his job.
June 21st, 2006 at 8:49 pm
I had a similar experience with AOL. Now I avoid them like the plague.
Another company to watch out for is Vonage. If you try to cancel your account there, you will be put on “hold” for almost an hour … then the guy that comes on won’t cancel your account; he’ll try to put you on a reduced fee account…you’ll be able to get messages, but you won’t be able to make calls out.
My experience with Vonage brought back post traumatic stress symptoms originally created by AOL!
June 21st, 2006 at 9:20 pm
Barbara hit it on the head: Jon did EXACTLY what he was told to do, in EXACTLY the way he was told to do it. The only reason he was fired (if he was - I somehow distrust that spokesperson) was because you recorded his spiel and published it. He became the sacrificial lamb.
Nothing will change, though. These types of strong-arm tactics bring in money for AOL; most people don’t listen to Opie and Anthony (or even know who they are, to be honest), and most people don’t stand up to bullying CSRs. When they are up against a guy like Jon, they say whatever they can to get off the phone because they don’t like confrontations.
I’m not defending Jon, but I am saying that it’s naive to think that your experience will change a thing. Jon’s replacement will say exactly the same things as he did, to the syllable.
June 21st, 2006 at 10:03 pm
So, you deliberately set up and recorded the call HOPING that AOL would give you a hard time, used the word “shit” (how polite!) and a rather hostile tone of voice, wouldn’t let the guy finish a sentence half the time, got a guy fired for doing exactly what you wanted him to do and then posted the whole self-congratulatory story on your website. Wow. What a great guy YOU are.
I use AOL now, and I’ve also cancelled two accounts in the past. I have never had a similar experience to yours and that my account was cancelled without hassle and within minutes of speaking to the first rep who answered. But then, I have a life and treat service reps like human beings, not pawns for my own entertainment.
June 21st, 2006 at 10:20 pm
ok uh huh … i worked in that industry for 12 years and in my opinion, Vincent was very respectful and polite actually. He went along with the questioning, which was repetitive, waited while the rep tried to figure out his next move (as evidenced by the obvious pauses and long breaks in conversation) and even answered some questions which were totally irrelevant. the rep was fishing for an angle and he was trying to get Vincent to hang up so the cancellation would not go against him. trust me, this is a widely used tactic. a good rep would have known that by the 2nd or 3rd attempt to cancel and move on to the next person. this guy wasn’t even asking questions that would make Vincent think he was really trying to help him. he made himself sound more and more inept as a salesperson as the call progressed. to me, vincent actually did a really good job maintaining his composure. one curse word for that conversation was a miracle. i have also cancelled two AOL accounts and had to inform the rep that I worked in the same industry and knew all the tricks before the accounts were cancelled. i gave feedback info after the first question and declined two other offers just so the person would not get a negative report for just cancelling without trying.
June 21st, 2006 at 10:48 pm
I had the same experience from AOL 2 years ago, the conversation lasted about 15 minutes with the same type of crap, same questions, and even would i like to upgrade to make my dissatisfaction more enjoyable, lol, then when it was over i was in the understanding that my account had been cancelled, until a month went by with another months charge on my credit card.
So here we go again with another call to AOL to complain about that and make sure my card was deleted from there system, after why this and what about that, all over again the rep offered me 3 months free for the inconvienence, but not to cancel my account, a bit more arguing and she said my account would be cancelled, this time it was, so yes your not alone and i would bet that there is thousands more and your appollogy from the vice, in my thoughts were not credible because this is what they teach them to do…
i like your site man i will be back thanks…
June 21st, 2006 at 11:22 pm
Wow! This certainly brings back memories when I cancelle four years ago. I was getting a new provider in a bundled service package with broadband service. The guy just wouldn’t confirm he had all the info he needed in order to cancel the service. He kept telling me how I’d lose my list of contacts (not a big deal), etc. I would ask, “So do you have all the information you need to cancel”? His reply would be to ask me another question. How obnoxious! In any case, I felt the need to call back and speak with a supervisor to confirm it was cancelled. It seems like at that time it was almost impossible to find a phone number for AOL.
Vincent, you’re awesome for having the forethought to tape the conversation.
June 21st, 2006 at 11:28 pm
Hey Vincent,
I was delighted to see your story on MSNBC today. I had a very similar experience over 6 years ago with AOL, which tells me that this has been going on for a very long time. Not to diminish your agonizing ordeal in any way, but I do believe that my “retention specialist” was even more abrasive and unprofessional than yours (which, I know, is very hard to believe!). I realized that I was fairly distraught after getting off the phone with her because I was more saddened by the fact that I didn’t have a recording of the conversation that had just transpired than I was with the actual event of canceling service with a company that so heavily values its customer service (sarcasm). I, like you, could not believe what was actually happening during my attempt to cancel service with AOL. If my memory serves me correctly, I was actually an observer, floating above myself in the kitchen as a team of me, myself, and I’s attempted to restore a life-like connection with the robot on the other end that was either an acutely trained retention technician, or an ice-cold bitch simply interested in her company’s promised bonus if her quota of monthly “saves” was met. And then I saw the light! The two possible entities I thought I might be talking to had the same goal; the quota bonus. I don’t believe AOL gives a damn about customer service. AOL provides detailed and phone-specific training to this willing sub-human species so that they will commit these inhumane crimes against human customers, and then AOL commits equally egregious crimes against said robot employees by sending them to the scrap-heap when the truth is revealed by those like you. Don’t blame the messenger! Vincent, thanks for taking the time to bring this problem to the masses. Down with AOL!!!!!!!!!!!
June 22nd, 2006 at 12:56 am
hi.. well i do understand what steve went thro… but common , the guy did exactly what aol and his boss’s told him and taught him to do ….
June 22nd, 2006 at 6:51 am
Mihai Gheza » The dark side of Web2.0
[...] Vincent Ferrari story [...]
June 22nd, 2006 at 7:13 am
This is *exactly* why I’ve avoided AOL like the plague. I’ve heard the stories from friends who tried, not only to cancel, but actually *fully* erase AOL’s software from their computer. It’s like a virus…
June 22nd, 2006 at 7:23 am
Video: Vinny Ferrarri Tries to Cancel His AOL Account–Blogs of War
[...] And Vinny’s story: Two weeks ago, Beth was registering for classes, and it forced me to take a look at my expenses and try to trim the fat as much as possible. I cancelled a bunch of extraneous bills and consolidated others. In other words, I did what I needed to do to save a buck. One of many things I needed to cancel was AOL. Frankly, the only reason I kept it was to troubleshoot some of the suits’ AOL installs at work. I hadn’t used it in an eternity, so the time had come. The account was going to be closed. [...]
June 22nd, 2006 at 8:52 am
Cancelling AOL? Be Prepared. — misunderestimation.com
[...] I’ve seen this video posted on several sites and it graphically illustrates the change in customer service demonstrated by large corporations. Vinny Ferrarri wanted to cancel his AOL account. He had heard stories about nightmare calls to AOL, so he decided to record the call. [...]
June 22nd, 2006 at 11:49 am
AOL has been doing this activity for years! I encountered this sleazy parasitic scam 2-3 years ago.
Took me approximately a year and numerous telephone calls & e-mails to get my 15+ year AOL account cancelled.
The main thrust of this con is to make you perform these same steps repeatedly ….. while badmouthing the prior customer service jerks for not doing their job properly ….. then repeating the cycle.
The upside for AOL until now, was that you were no longer using their service ….. but still paying for it.
Sounds as if the have modified their smarmy routine somewhat. In the past they would “cancel” your account by telling you the account was cancelled but then they would unilaterally, clandestinely continue your account in some sort of “free account status” limbo which in some perverted worldview justified continued uninterrupted charges to my credit card account.
They continued to bill my credit card account for the entire cancellation period.
Eventually got the account cancelled and my money returned.
So AOL’s claim that this is an anomaly by some renegade customer service rep is ludicrous.
Regards –
D.T. Miller
Columbus\Cincy
d.t.miller@verizon.net
June 22nd, 2006 at 4:51 pm
That’s exactly what happened to me 3-5 years ago - can’t remember exactly when. I was switching to the cheaper and more reliable NetZero and the rep first tried to get me to take their “little sister” CompuServe - expensive but with a limited number of online hours (remember those days?). I said no and had to sit through her endless monologue while she cancelled my account and gave me 3 months free, which I didn’t use.
The next month I was billed for full AOL service. I called again and the rep said they charged me because I used the account. They accused me of checking my old AOL email, which I didn’t (call me cautious). The rep verified that the account hadn’t been used. Can’t remember if I actually got the BBB involved or threatened to, but they refunded the money and sent a letter offering to reinstate my account.
Glad you got this out in the open. Thanks, Vinny.
June 22nd, 2006 at 7:13 pm
aol is being targetted by others bec it is the biggest ISP. for all we know, this recording is one of the MO of other companies trying to damage AOL. You all seem to have gotten a bit of amnesia as well. Remember, you once benefitted from this service. It may not have been perfect for the past years but I must admit that it is more advantageous than some other ISP wannabes. This is a hard time for AOL and the company may be experiencing downtrends. But remember, when you’re down, there’s no other way but to go up. Now for those who complain about charges, honestly, everything you complain about is there in their TOS. I KNOW because I READ ALL TOS of ANY SERVICE I JOIN before AGREEING to the membership AND I check my bank statements DILIGENTLY. Though I must admit that the “jon” csr should not have acted the way he did, this is no way should make you judge AOL for all so the called services you g******** took advantage of.
June 22nd, 2006 at 7:29 pm
what’s next for you? a MOVIE deal? Way to go! ::: you didn’t mean for someone to be fired but you did post the phone convo in a way you know its going to be found huh?
June 22nd, 2006 at 8:16 pm
I think you were more than “infinitely fair” (if that is, indeed, possible). I would’ve wanted him fired for that type of treatment. I think it’s pathetic; I refuse to deal with companies even if they have “the lowest price” if they play the run-around game when I call for customer service, etc. If you can’t help me (or I can’t understand your English), I’m dealing with another company. Period. Love the fact that you’ve posted this and it’s getting a lot of attention, mama always said “you reap what you sow”…
Good on them!
June 22nd, 2006 at 10:06 pm
Vinny,
Glad you finally severed your ties with AOHell. I went through the same BS last year when I finally got fed up with paying too much for inferior internet service. The rep, while not as much of a jerkoff as Jon, used the same script to the letter that you got. I even told him my employer was paying for my new ISP since it is job related, and the clown said “Well I can give you two months free and blah…blah…blah. What the hell would I want America OFF Line for if my employer is paying for my new service?
But wait Vinnie, you are not out of the woods yet! Be prepared to have AOHell telemarketers call you to try to get you back Also, in your mailbox will be AOHell’s crappy software with pleas to come back to AOHell. I suggest you report them to the National Do Not Call List if your number is registered with them. At one point, they called me every day straight for about three weeks. And everyday I reported them. No more calls. As for that junk mail they will send you…..destroy it immediately.
June 22nd, 2006 at 11:35 pm
If you think that aol is shocked by this, fired the guy, and just wants to apologize about how it will never happen again your nuts. They train them to do that and have been doing it for years. I cancelled my four years ago I will never, NEVER forget what I had to go through.
After about 30 to 40 minutes I was screaming at the top of my lungs, and HE was as calm as anything waiting for me to shut up so he could continue on… right were he left off.
June 23rd, 2006 at 1:30 am
I am so HAPPY this was addressed. Just yesterday I was looking at my bank staement (something I do not do often, BIG MISTAKE) and realised that the AOL account I KNOW I canceled back in August of 2005 was stillactive and I was still being charged for it. I called to get try to straighten things out and spoke with what I swear was the RUDEST man (said his name was rick, screen name rienlmag) I have yet to encounter. He talked to me as if I was stupid and didnt matter. He talked over me and then refused (after my many request) to let me speak with a supervisor or any one else. (I had ask to speak with any one but him and he said flat out no!) I had never been so offended in my LIFE by a customer service rep. Even after I told him how rude I thought he was, he continued to ask me to sign-up for stuff. I told him and I maent it…I WILL NEVER use Aol again no matter how cheap or better the service, just based on sheer principle! On top of course, I could not find the cancelation # after such a long time, so I will not be getting anymoney back. Even though I never used the service… Never signed on even once.
So A warning. Do Not Use AOL and if you cancel, keep the # and do not let them talk you into extending it for a month… That is how that got me. I dd extend it and Know I called in within the month, but they say I didnt. Also make sure you are not being charged. I can say that was my mistake in the matter… Not checking to make sure it had been done.
Im still pissed and if anyone has a similar situation and wants to make AOL pay for it…I am avalible to help in anyway I can! What they do is wrong, rude and should be illegal!
I can be reached at shanabean52@hotmail.com
June 23rd, 2006 at 10:41 am
CONGRATULATIONS!
I just happen to run across this on a CNN spot. As a matter of fact this was discussed in my marketing class. It was a discussion about company ethics. I shared my experience with AOL. As a matter of fact, John is not the only AOL employee with this practice. ALL OF THEM DO this. I really believe this is AOLs practice. I am willing to say I am sure he is not fired.
I tried to cancel my subscription for 6 MONTHS. I cancelled this over and over. AOL continued to bill me. I demanded them to stop. It was not my credit card but my checking account. I went to my bank because they would not stop and my banker advised me that this was a common problem with AOL. My banker also instructed me to specify no withdrawals from AOL. Because if I stopped payment say for 19.99 AOL would change the withdrawal to 19.98. How they get away with this I don’t know.
Well it does not end there, I stopped payment more than a year ago and now I get automated collection call from AOL at least 5 times a week. At least once a week a live person calls. Forget the fact that I told them that I did not use their services and had cancelled several times. I told them I had changed to DSL and no longer needed their service. Please stop taking money out of my account. Forgive me, but I thought that was called stealing.
I had thought to record it, however I always assumed recording someone without their knowledge was illegal. What I did do was advise them that I was going to record this call for my records and the person on the other line insisted they could not allow that and then would abruptly hang up.
How you got away with it, is beyond me. I am just waiting for a class action law suit against AOL, I am first in line.
I promise you, the only reason they stopped your service is because you received media attention.
June 23rd, 2006 at 12:05 pm
Just saw your story on CNN and had to share mine. My mother passed away and my husband was named executor of her estate. Of all the tasks he had to do, cancelling her AOL account was one of the most difficult. We discovered that, for AOL, death was not a satisfactory reason for cancelling one’s account. Go figure!
June 23rd, 2006 at 12:37 pm
Vincent,
I had the same experience with AOL a few months back. I didn’t really care for the software anyway but when I tried to cancel they gave me hell! I think the wanted me to hang up because if I had it would have caused my account to be charged the following day. I feel bad for the guy that lost his job but I’m still not clear why he needed to speak to your dad.
Peace
June 23rd, 2006 at 1:04 pm
Congratulations this really is great. I enjoyed your story through and through, but I have one suggestion. At some point in your recount the story begins to divulge away from AOL and its historically defensive cancellation process - the REAL problem, and begins to focus on “Jon” - the hourly wage employee, as if HE were.
I have a suggestion for you and anyone who reads this. Let’s not actually blame Jon. In fact, I would love to hear Jon’s personal side of the story, if he’s out there. Jon “got” rude but as a predication to the fact that AOL is the one who staged this whole thing. It’s AOL who incites the culture that no account be cancelled easily. It’s they who pose the reward for saving accounts on a line that should be exclusively reserved for 1 minute “Please cancel my account” conversations. I believe AOL is making Jon a scapegoat, and you’re sort of buying into it. You’re not any less a victim or even that different for doing so. We are trained to blame the front line staff any time a corporate slight goes bad on the consumer front.
I say we let bygones be bygones, find the guy, get his story, and keep the heat on AOL. When someone calls AOL and says “Please cancel my account”, that should be the end of it. When you are under pressure and angry, and Jon is under pressure and angry - the end result is the behavior that’s been recorded. AOL, in the end, is the one that walks away blameless and richer. Screw that.
June 23rd, 2006 at 1:32 pm
I call for “John” from AOL to step forward and tell his story. Clearly he was ridiculous, but he is the scapegoat here. This story will never be truly told unless he steps forward and tells all about his AOL training experience. That guy was a well-trained employee of AOL, and is a model for what they probably expect from their employees. Come on “John” step up to the plate and tell us all how AOL taught you to act like that toward customers. Don’t let that company get off the hook by canning you and appearing to have solved the problem. You don’t have to bring a lawsuit against them, but tell everyone the real story. Please bring true justice to American consumers. You were just doing your job - I know it. We all know it!
June 23rd, 2006 at 2:06 pm
You know this isnt an isolated incident , we have a recording here at my job of one of the guys trying for 20 min to cancel his AOL account, the only thing that finally got the Rep from AOL to go thru with it was the fact the guy here trying to cancel mentioned he is calling from work and the call is being recorded.
June 23rd, 2006 at 3:01 pm
Hey Andy, Just a suggestion…
Please get that recording on the net….Let’s provide undeniable proof that this was not an isolated incident, but the prevailing attitude of their “Retention Dept”.
June 23rd, 2006 at 4:50 pm
I had worse trouble when I tried to cancel my AT&T cell phone service a couple of years ago. I was billed for three months following my attempt to cancel. I spent hours and hours on the telephone trying to get them to cancel those three bills.
I do document everything: date, time, # I called, whom I spoke with, (preferably) an employee ID number, what was said. When the person on the other end of the phone doesn’t want to give that information, a red flag should go up. I was given only a first name and no ID number.
When I tried to deal with AT&T later, I was told that the person who took the original order to cancel didn’t exist: “Nobody named Michelle works at AT&T.” That was absurd!
Finally, I had to go to the Texas Attorney General’s office and file a complaint and send letters to Washington (I don’t remember which office).
You really have to watch these corporations. They have no scruples. They count on people just paying the bill and not squawking. I learned a long time ago, however, that the squeaking wheel gets the grease, and that if you yell loudly enough for long enough, you’ll get what you satisfaction.
June 23rd, 2006 at 4:53 pm
I meant to say that you’ll get “the satisfaction you’re seeking.” I’m so sorry it read so poorly in my original post.
June 23rd, 2006 at 5:04 pm
I had to call AOl several times and spend FOREVER cancelling my account. AOL talked down to me. Never use AOL.
June 23rd, 2006 at 6:21 pm
I had a similar experience.
My parents bought their first computer about a year ago. Of course, it came with a free year of AOL. I told them not to sign up but some people can’t pass up FREE! LOL
So after a year had passed they were not happy with AOL. All they wanted was email and to Google stuff. They found AOL hard to navigate and too much clutter on the screen. (By the way, they were in their late 50’s when they bought the computer.) I told them I would save them the headache of canceling and call AOL myself.
I have worked in several jobs over the phone so I know that most everyone has a script now days. I let him finish the script and answered all his questions politely. I have been there before so I knew it was not going to be easy but it still took over 20 minutes to cancel. You can bet that by about the 15 minute mark I was screaming and cussing at the guy. Enough is enough!
By the way, this brings up a good point. Remember most everyone that has a phone job has to read a script- just shut up and let people do their job they’ll get you off the phone as fast as they can. If you need to raise hell, by all means do so, but you’ll cause more aggrivation for yourself if you try to speed up the process.
A buddy of mine had to cancel his credit card a few years ago because AOL just would not let him cancel. If AOL was as great as they claim, there would not be such the high pressure to cancel.
AOL SUCKS. Get an ISP that does not require any other softeware than Windows.
June 23rd, 2006 at 6:25 pm
Hey forgot to mention something.
This guy was fired for doing what AOL wanted him to do. They don’t have the balls to admit this is SOP at AOL. I sure in the hell don’t feel sorry for him but it really shows what kind of company AOL is. Look at all these comments. Talk to your friends. This call was no different in any way from what the rest of us have experienced.
June 23rd, 2006 at 7:31 pm
Saw the story on CNN this morning. It was like deja vu. Just last year, we were auditing our bank account statements and kept coming across this $23 charge every month from an unspecified source. #$!@, who’s got our account number? I called my bank and found out it was AOL. How the #$@* are they charging me when I don’t have an account? Apparently my wife had unknowingly clicked a checkmark box for AOL music on some site and gotten “free AOL for 3 months” and we never knew about it. It took me 20 to 30 minutes on the phone with one of those clowns to get the account cancelled. They wouldn’t refund the money (even though I never used the service). This guy used a lot of the same verbage John did. AOL fired John for PR purposes only. They TRAIN and ENCOURAGE their retention people to use those tactics. Just wish I had thought to record the call. Great to see them finally get what they deserve.
June 23rd, 2006 at 7:50 pm
I just saw this story on CNN.com. Glad someone finally recorded the conversation. I’ve heard this was a problem too, and found out first hand when I had my mom cancel her slow and unreliable AOL dialup service last year. I was visiting her at the time of the call, and she was on the phone for about 30 minutes! She’s too nice of a person, so she just listened to all the BS they were trying to feed her.
It’s amazing that AOL has so many customers considering they have such a poor product and even worse customer service. Guess that’s why they have to advertise so much. I’ve built many nice computers for friends that were blazing fast, until they went and installed all the AOL software, after I told them not too.
June 23rd, 2006 at 7:58 pm
That is so awesome!!!
I know you’ve heard this a million times, but I had the same thing happen to me. I signed up for some free trial, and it took about 10 to 15 minutes of trying to cancel. And only because I was adamant.
I think you’ve changed things forever. Next time I’ll just say “Remember Vinny from the Bronx and Jon from AOL? Well I’m taping this conversation too…!”
(P.S. Love the Bronx publicity. I’m one of your neighbors!)
June 23rd, 2006 at 9:50 pm
This is not an isolated occurrence. I’ve had to cancel AOL on several occasions over the years. They’ve always tried to talk you out of it. The guy you recorded was doing exactly what they train them to do.
June 23rd, 2006 at 11:25 pm
I have to agree with the above comment: I had to call AOL several times to get them to stop charging me for service I had cancelled two months earlier. Good that you called them on it - someone has to!
June 24th, 2006 at 9:25 am
I too recorded the phone conversation of closing my AOL account from last july (2005) but just never “let it out” on the chance of legality. But, it seems things went fine for you, so here is my recording for some additional fun…
http://media.putfile.com/Trying-to-Can-AOL-705
So it seems this tactic has been used for at least the past year and doesn’t look very good for the isolated incident theory
June 25th, 2006 at 9:50 am
First I’d like to say you have nothing to feel bad about. You didn’t get him fired.
He got himself fired. He might’ve been being snarky and abusive to customers before this. He might not. But if he’d been doing it habitually, he would’ve been found out. For sure he would’ve. The internet is increasingly full of people who understand “the geek shall inherit the earth,” and if you hadn’t been the one to record and post a call — somebody else would’ve. With the same result, I believe.
I have worked in customer service. I win awards for it. And it disgusts me when I hear stories like this.
So I’m really proud of you, because you did keep calm. You did remain polite. And then you simply put up the results for the world to see, and the chips fell without you having to do anything else except indicate what you’d gone through. If all customers were as calm as you, and as polite as you when they had a grievance [even though your situation didn't begin as a grievance], customer service would have to sit up and listen.
Well done. I’m gonna be linking.
June 25th, 2006 at 11:32 am
My husband and I went through months of aggrevation when we tried to cancel our AOL account. We were told it was canceled but AOL continued to debit our bank account for monthly charges. Every month we contacted them and demanded our money back. Not only that, but each time we talked to someone at AOL, we were actually talking to someone in India. Never did we talk to someone who was actually an American on American soil. Isn’t AOL supposed to be AMERICA on Line? They should change their name to India on Line.
June 25th, 2006 at 1:15 pm
Vinnie wrote:
I’m not totally comfortable with the fact that I cost this guy his job.
dude, no way. You did not cost this guy his job. He did it all by himself.
I’ve spent my entire working life in service, and guarantee that if I had behaved in the fashion of the AOL rep, I would have been fired on the spot. There is no excuse for the treatment you suffered at his hands.
June 25th, 2006 at 2:11 pm
RadioStatic » Blog Archive » Radio Static Podcast 2006-13
[...] Disconnecting AOL - This rep got fired but what and idiot he is. Here link to the blog I found it at. Also read his take on recording conversations, and, in general, read his blog he has many post on this one. Thanks for the clip and permission Vinny! [...]
June 25th, 2006 at 4:36 pm
I’ve had an aol account for many years, and when I canceled my account last year, I went through the EXACT same thing! I was on the phone for like 15 minutes telling the CSR that I wanted to cancel my account… I’m so glad I no longer have AOL! so many bad experiences with the company… AOL is a thing of the past…
June 26th, 2006 at 10:29 pm
Hi Vinny,
It took me 4 separate calls to finally get my AOL account canceled with a confirmation #. Then every month since January 06, a new charge for $21.51 was added onto my charge card. Every month, I called to get the charges (and late fees) cleared off. Finally, I had to cancel my credit card to get rid of AOL. With a written cancellation of my credit card in hand, would you believe that AOL actually has been able to continue billing my canceled card? Now I have to dispute AOL charges added onto my canceled credit card. Last week, AOL turned the $21.51 charge over to their collection agency, Allied Interstate in Columbus, Ohio. I’ve been harassed with several Allied Interstate phone calls despite relaying AOL’s own cancellation confirmation # and the names of their people resolution employees. The collection callers constantly threaten my credit rating. Now I’ve received written notification that Allied Interstate (New York City License #0933734) is a debt collector with a judgment from AOL. Since I now have to spend even more of my time responding to this harassment, I’m wondering whether any of you bloggers out there are being threatened with credit rating actions in a similar way. Are any of you prepared to join me in a Class Action Law Suit against AOL? Vinny, any suggestions ?
June 27th, 2006 at 1:47 pm
The Authentic Eccentric » Blog Archive » Raving Fans and Infamy
[...] First up - Vincent Ferrari at Insignificant Thoughts records his experience trying to cancel his AOL account. The ensuing “fifteen minutes of fame” snowballs as the call is distributed throughout the blogosphere and Digg, a popular news/social networking site. The story escalates as the mainstream media gets wind of it and appearances on NBC, CNN and MSNBC follow. AOL apologizes and terminates the agent. [...]
June 27th, 2006 at 4:38 pm
My family used AOL for quite some time years and years ago. My parents had to deal with them, and it was horrible what they put them through. We cancelled the account, yet were still billed every month for months until they finally would cancel! I am currently using AIM, but even that attempts to download more AOL crap.
June 29th, 2006 at 7:57 am
In the 80’s I had an account with AOL. Believe it or not, it was harder to cancel an account back then. I would call month after month, but my credit card kept being billed (that is the way AOL billed back then). Thank you for telling the story, it is still the same even after all these years. Kudos to you Vincent!
An AOL rep interview would disclose the way you were treated is standard AOL treatment. The fired rep should take them to court.
June 29th, 2006 at 12:15 pm
As a citizen of Amsterdam (The Netherlands) I’m quite surprised that large companies seem to have less and less control over their employees. I would like to say that these things never happen in Holland, but they do.
Latest news we got over here is that (American) companies use inmates (prisoners) as a workforce. Do you think Jon really got the sack?? Could it be that he’s still in jail and just calling or responding on behalf of another company?
June 29th, 2006 at 1:23 pm
Thank you for calling AOL,my name is ____ how can I help better your online experience today
Oh, Im sorry to hear that but I will be more than happy to resolve that for you today.
Now, in order to assist you, I will first need to ask you a few questions in order to protect your accounts privacy and security
Thank you very much Mr Ferrari, now if I understood you correctly, you said you were calling to cancel your account today. Is that correct? Ok, great, well I can help you with that, now may I ask why you are wanting to cancel?
Ok, so you now have high speed and feel that you no longer need our service, well Im glad I got your call…..throw some value (like firewall, virus protection..etc)
and so on and so forth….there is a scripted response for every single issue, yes, even if the owner of the account is deceased.
I agree with you on every aspect,I cancelled my account immediately after I was no longer employed there (cause I never used it and only kept it because it was free) And just the stupid automated system alone is a nightmare.
Oh and one last thing…they tell you at the creation of your account that you can cancel by simply going to KeyWord Cancel…but trust me when I say, the accounts never get cancelled that way. And…if you think you can cancel your cc on file with them, think again, most cc companies have a long standing relationship with them and if you have had your acct for several years, they will simply send AOL an electronic update of your NEW cc…so make sure to check those statements.
I hope you never encounter another situation like that and Im sorry that that happened to you, but it really isnt the employees that want to stand in your way of cancelling, its the insane productivity and service levels that they are trying to reach in order to get paid.
Oh, yea, before I forget, the funny thing about that interview with Netscape is that they are owned by none other than,yep, you guessed it, AOL. lol…priceless…have a great day!
Signed,
not a disgruntled employee (hehe)
June 30th, 2006 at 1:22 am
reading back thru these responses i had nearly forgotten what a NIGHTMARE i experienced trying to get rid of AT&T - which someone else here also experienced. when i got phone service in oregon i told quest that i would like at&t as my long distance. within an hour, i called back and said, i’ve changed my mind, please make quest my long distance. so we went thru an “official” cancellation which included a three person conference call with all concerned.
long story short, at&t NEVER cancelled, kept billing me for non existent service, i’d call and cancel, same three person conference call, and on and on. this happened every single month for six months. i was beside myself - i experienced THE most nasty, rude and incredibly condescending and LYING customer service workers and supervisors at AT&T that paled in comparison to when i tried to cancel AOL several years ago.
finally, in desperation, i filed a formal complaint with the Oregon attorney general’s office and surprisingly, rec’d a telephone call from them assuring me they were aware of the shady AT&T practices, that they had been fined by the state of Oregon, and that since i had had so much trouble they were going to personally make sure my account was “cancelled” permanently AND they were going to have AT&T send me a letter of apology!
AND THEY DID!!!
so my advice is: if you experience similar trouble, first contact the Better Busines Bureau and make sure the company knows it. and then file a formal complaint with your state’s attorneys general office. those are the ONLY things that make these companies sit up and take notice. it is almost the ONLY way to get them off your back.
anything that has to be sent to the legal dept of a company, such as AOL or AT&T, means you are on solid ground and your case will most definitely be attended to.
NOW - i’m worried because soon i will have to get rid of my netscape account and all customer service calls to them in the past were routed to INDIA.
i,too, found it amusing netscape interviewed you, vinnie - they are most likely just as cupable in their cancellations.
June 30th, 2006 at 4:06 pm
HAHAHAH! telemarketers, car salesman, realators and anyone who’s job is on a phone are scum, this has happened to me with Verizon and Adelphia both, its their job to do shit like this. And half the stuff they say is false like “may i talk to this person” and so on when they dont have to, its just another chance to keep what you dont want. Scum fucks.
July 5th, 2006 at 12:00 am
The statement “At AOL, we have zero-tolerance for customer care incidents like this…” is BS! Ten years ago, I went through a similar hassle trying to cancel my AOL account (which was automatically charged monthly, to my MasterCard). After going around and around with the rep, I angrily ended the conversation by saying that AOL better not put another charge on my credit card and if they do, I would not pay it. So that ended the verbal standoff. AOL is, and has always been a crap company. And I’m glad they are going down the tubes - it’s about time!
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:19 pm
Thought Bubbles
Customer “Service”…
It seems like horrid customer service is the theme of the month. A couple friends I know have been the victims of critical errors and nasty runarounds from airlines. Crappy AOL customer service makes headline news, but all that bad publicity does exa…
June 4th, 2007 at 6:43 am
[...] and it graphically illustrates the change in customer service demonstrated by large corporations. Vinny Ferrarri wanted to cancel his AOL account. He had heard stories about nightmare calls to AOL, so he decided [...]
May 1st, 2008 at 4:16 pm
I thought we were the only ones fed up with AOL. Canceled our account in Sept 2007 and today found out that they put us in collection. Now we have them calling at all hours (from India) to collect $30.00. I’m glad I never gave them my credit card numbers.
May 2nd, 2008 at 7:10 pm
[...] –dealing with Mr Annoying support sales guy This guy really bothers me, I can see why Vincent Ferrari was miffed. It’s clear, he was dealing with the customer retention department. Nothing worse than the [...]
May 4th, 2008 at 9:47 pm
[...] gets canceled –how to get get on my nerves This guy really bothers me, I can see why Vincent Ferrari was miffed. It’s clear, he was dealing with the customer retention department. Nothing worse than the [...]
September 10th, 2008 at 1:32 pm
Maybe because the people you called were attrition.org not Aol. People check it out, under global post go to the bottom and click on the link about people who send emails to the wrong guys about cacelling their accounts!