Jun 20 2006
AOL Apologizes, Officially.
Nicholas Graham, Executive Vice President of AOL Corporate Communications contacted me to officially apologize for the infamous “Jon” call. Here’s the full text of the e-mail:
Vincent, thank you for returning my phone call. I appreciate hearing from you and being able to talk to you - and to personally apologize for your experience. At AOL, we have zero-tolerance for customer care incidents like this - which is deeply regrettable and also absolutely inexcusable. The employee in question violated our customer service guidelines and practices, and everything that AOL believes to be important in customer care - chief among them being respect for the member, and swiftly honoring their requests. This matter was dealt with immediately and appropriately, and the employee cited here is no longer with the Company.
Vincent - please get in touch with me again in the future I can be of help at all. And good luck to you and to “Insignificant Thoughts”.
Sincerely,
Nicholas
I’ll take it. Thank you very much to both Nicholas Graham and Zach Katzaris of AOL, both of whom contacted me to apologize on behalf of the company. I don’t doubt the sincerity of either, and both of them have promised to make efforts to improve this situation for others.
Technorati Tags: aol, cancellation, nicholas graham, zach katzaris
June 20th, 2006 at 1:53 pm
I had a terribly difficult time at AOL as well. I called to cancel due to going cable, and was disturbingly kept on the line for over half an hour by, unfortunately, I don’t know who. First he tried to subvert my every reason for cancelling, then offered me not one, not two, but three different rate reduction and access plans. Eventually, my attitude became one of obvious but controlled hostility, and it still took me at least 5 more minutes before I was transferred to a completely different individual (after holding several more minutes) who handled the actual cancellation. It is quite obvious from this latter situation that AOL has specialists trained in keeping you on the line until you capitulate. This is one of the worst experiences I have ever had with this type of correspondence. I hope for others’ sake that management is serious about cleaning up this annoying act. I will never even think about doing business with AOL again.
HRN
June 20th, 2006 at 3:41 pm
He only apologized because of the publicity.
It was not sincere.
They have been fined for this ad-nauseum and everyone at AOL is well-aware of the practice. When you get sued by 3 different states, then you become very aware of the problem.
He apologized for PR reasons.
The same thing is happening to 1,000 people as I type this, but they just don’t have the forethought to tape it, or a website on which to post it.
AOL was sorry. Sorry they get caught.
Then know that this will die down in a week, and it will be business as usual.
June 20th, 2006 at 11:09 pm
I agree. They apologized because of the publicity. I cancelled my account last week after 30 minute of arguing with a foreign woman that kept insisting that my email on AOL, which only receives spam will be kept active. She insisted I needed it. I insisted that I didn’t. We went through a few rounds of that until she argued with me that I use AOL all of the time. I have DSL and really don’t. She insisted that I use the messenger all of the time - I really don’t. It was one of the most ridiculous conversations that I’ve ever had. My only guess is that people just get so frustrated that they give up and pay the cash each month only to avoid the customer service issue.
June 21st, 2006 at 12:42 am
I too had problems canceling my account, after I signed up for a “free” 90 day membership. Well to make a long story short, I then recieved an e-mail from AOL saying my bank account was going to be charged the next day. I called AOL, to cancel and was told that they would issue a credit to my payment method, and would give me 3 months for free, isn’t that what I had in the first place.
No credit ever appeared in my bank account, but they did charge my account again. When I called and spoke to the cancelation department, I was told that the 1st credit was denied, but that it would be coming in 30 days. (yes, I typed that correctly). I was also told that they would credit my bank account for the second charge, and that it would take up to seven days. After seven days, when I called, to ask about the credit, I was told it could take up to 30 days for the credit be issued. I told them to cancel my account, and after an hour and a half; resulting in my having to scream and ask for a supervisor, my account was cancelled.
I then called my bank, and contested the charges, provided the bank with the e-mails and letters verifying my claim, and they reversed the charges. I should have dealt with my bank, not AOL.
June 21st, 2006 at 1:23 am
Perhaps you can pass my name and email on to Nicholas Graham. He said in his note to you “Vincent - please get in touch with me again in the future I can be of help at all. And good luck to you and to “Insignificant Thoughts”. I had an account that was next to impossible to cancel - took multiple attempts over the course of 8 months. Each time I thought it was cancelled, charges would show up on my credit card. And, I never got all my money back.
Kudos to you. You were able to accomplish what I was unable to do for eight months.
June 21st, 2006 at 1:46 am
Dude, your acceptance of that bullshit ‘apology’ from AOL is really stanky. You think these ‘Johns’ act like this on their freaking OWN?
What world do you live in? I mean, you from NYC! Don’t let these AOL virus aholes get away with ‘we so sorry. we immoliated the ‘John’ that used to work for us. That will solve the problem. Hope you is happy’.
Unbelievable. Hopefully you are very young, in your 20’s or so. You’ve got an edge to you that I understand. But you have this 15 minutes of fame. If you sell out, twenty years from now, you will seriously regret it. The way to handle this is to do what that *edge* tells you to do!
Explain how AOL is a virus, how they track every move you make on the internet; how it is *OBVIOUS* company policy to train the ‘Johns’, since I ditched my AOL account in 1996, and got pretty much the same BS that you got. Just a different day, my man.
So do the right thing. Tell the EVP or whatever the f he is that he’s full of s. That the person he needs to fire is himself. Since he and his ilk promote that policy.
And, oh, BTW, don’t forget to put in a word or two about the freaking cable and baby bell monopoly/oligopoly we got going on here. I’ve been where you are right now dude. I did the wrong thing. You are primpin’ on the ‘Today show’ thing and all, and you’ll go in there and they’ll tell you what little, very small, window of things they want to say.
And if you just KA and do that, you’re just another ‘John’ who just ain’t working for AOL just now…
June 21st, 2006 at 3:02 am
I had the same experience. The only thing I can compare to my conversation with the AOL rep is trying to shake a Sun Myung-Moon cult member on the UC Berkeley campus back in the 70s.
June 21st, 2006 at 5:25 am
No selling out here, man. Had they offered me anything to shut me up, it woulda been all over the news (as it is, I’m going to be on CNBC and the Today Show today).
I can only take people on their word. I’m a good Catholic boy from the Bronx and that’s the way I live. That doesn’t mean I’m naive or crazy either, but I don’t doubt the sincerity of the letter, despite its impersonality (most of it was a statement that was previously issued).
We’ll see if things change. Something tells me this story isn’t going away as easily as they would like it to.
June 21st, 2006 at 7:08 am
Hi,
I appreciate your publishing the call and talking about it. I had a very similar experience last night with AOL though. Unfortunately, I just read the article about your experience this morning, or I would have also recorded the call. Reading this makes me feel kind of sorry for the guy who you talked to who got fired. What he did (at least judging by all the response to your article) was clearly in accordance with AOL policy and he seems to have been made a scapegoat because of the publicity. In the meantime, AOL just continues to harass people who want to cancel their accounts. Too bad that they apparently haven’t really learned anything from this.
June 21st, 2006 at 7:37 am
Vinnie
Saw you on cnbc this am
had THE SAME EXPERIENCE
no longer use the service and will never recommend it
Scott
June 21st, 2006 at 7:49 am
I guess it is desperation from AOL that is making them do anything and go so far not to do lose a customer in their rapidly shrinking market size.
I was working with Netzero internet formerly, in the technology sector though, and am pretty confident that no customer would ever have to go through 45 minutes to just cancel an account.
I’m not sure if they have it automated such that the user can cancel it online himself through simple steps, but definitely friendlier than AOL.
I wonder what others think or if they’ve faced such problems with Netzero too. With the whole dial-up internet market’s pie decreasing in size, these ISP’s better increase their retention rate through better customer satisfaction, not this way.
June 21st, 2006 at 7:51 am
Hey Vinny,
Saw you on CNBC today, man. I liked your response when you were asked if your next mission was to take on Sprint and others listed!
June 21st, 2006 at 8:00 am
Yup, That was my experience also with AOL. I got a woman who wouldn’t let it go. John, the guy you got, was trained to do so, so they sould retrain or fire them all!!! Thanks Vincent, for exposing AOL for what they really are.
June 21st, 2006 at 8:01 am
Reading Lee’s comments convinces me that I am unlikely to receive the credit AOL promised me.
After she graduated from college, my daughter (with my permission) used my credit card to take advantage of the “free” trial — only so she could download Juno’s software. (She’s Very frugal!)
She never had any intention of paying for AOL service. At the end of the trial she cancelled, but, after a lapse of about a year, charges began appearing on my credit card statement.
When she contacted AOL to complain, she was told that a telemarketer they employ had told them that my daughter had consented to have the account re-opened!
Lies, lies, lies!
Good luck to you, Vincent. Just be sure to check your credit card statements for years to come.
Randy
June 21st, 2006 at 8:04 am
If you go into any place of business and want to return or cancel anything, they’re going to ask you why. All you had to do was let the poor guy speak and you would’ve gotten what you wanted either way, it’s the way service works and always has been. Have you even ever been outside of your house? You have a blog so you probably don’t leave like must other people who have blogs. I’m surprised you changed out of your feetie pj’s for the interview. Anywho, I just can’t believe how rude your were to that poor guy…and then HE gets fired. Sure, he crossed the line eventually, but only when provoked. The worse thing is that this if so obviously orchestrated to publize your blog. Shame on you. On the other hand, Aol sucks, so smart move on that front.
June 21st, 2006 at 8:13 am
Vinny
Just saw you on CNBC. Great interview. I would appreciate getting from you the info on Nicholas Graham as I would like to tell him about my own absolutely dreadful experince with AOL. IT is absolutely NOT true that your experience was a fluke. It took me months, yes months to cancel my account and even so, I was being charged incredibly high monthly charges (sometimes $145.00) without anyone being able to tell me why! Of course I never got my money back. Now mind you, I had other internet service from my own cable provider so used the AOL account rarely- I was the main subscriber to AOL, with three email addresses and one son with his. Bills were absolutely preposterous- when I called to cancel (probably more than 25 times, it was ABSOLUTELY impossible to do so- either you got cut off, talked non stop to stop me from talking, asked incdredibly unprofessional questions… was never, ever connected to a supervisor, or they just kept going on and on, bringing up another subject as it happened to you- pass the phone to your MOm…. Hey, I’m a 60 year old mom myself, I”M the mom! Well, to no avail until finally after a 45 minute screaming session with a guy, I was able to get the word in. CANCEL. I received a letter confirming the closure of the account but not until January (21st I think) which still gave me according to AOL, a few weeks in which to “think it over”.
My middle son, who lives on his own and is an actor, also had exactly the same problem cancelling- I was with him in the apartment and said, wait for this to happen today! It did not happen, he had to call again and again. He also was in the most incredible screaming matches for almost an hour. No supervisors available, ever.
Forgot to mention, AFTER I was finally able to cancel, I received several phone calls at my home, from AOL, trying to convince me to reinstate the account, even saying that they were keeping my email addresses for a time in order to allow the changing of mind!!!!
Anyway, I would very much like to speak to Nicholas Graham and would appreciate you emailing me his information. This cannot stop here- it is a total problem and just as it happened to me that I had to absorb these ridiculous amounts of moneys charged because nobody would clarify the situation with me, plus the canceling problems which were positively horrendous, I do not believe that AOL should get away with this.
What hurts me the most is the fact that they had the gall to fire ONE guy when their entire crew is trained to handle customers exactly this way.
Thanks Vinny for your effort. It is greatly appreciated. Please let’s not stop here.
June 21st, 2006 at 8:43 am
Vinny I saw the clip on the Today show. It’s not yet done with AOL. I had AOL for years till I decided like you to get rid of it. Your 15 min call was a short one. I had to call them back a few times before they got it threw there thick heads I don’t want it anymore. I finally got so feed up with the AOL employees I in a loud voice told them I want to talk to your boss now. I was transferred and started the whole loop over again. I was told “No Mr. $#$@ you don’t want to cancel really“. I told whomever I was talking to yes and if you don’t I will seek legal counsel. Finally, they canceled BUT the end wasn’t anywhere near soon enough for me. They canceled my account but for some reason still were trying to get the monthly fee. I kept a close eye on my account, I was told by friends AOL sometimes doesn’t stop taking there monthly fee. I went down to my bank to put a stop payment for AOL on my checking account. You would think it’s over right. I haven’t had AOL for 2-3 years. I just called AOL a month or so ago, I was told I owe them for past payment. I wasn’t very nice to whomever I was talking to. AOL never really truly goes away. I’m not even going to get started on there tech area. Do they speak English?
Good Luck Mike
June 21st, 2006 at 8:46 am
Vinny I saw the clip on the Today show. It’s not yet done with AOL. I had AOL for years till I decided like you to get rid of it. Your 15 min call was a short one. I had to call them back a few times before they got it threw there thick heads I don’t want it anymore. I finally got so feed up with the AOL employees I in a loud voice told them I want to talk to your boss now. I was transferred and started the whole loop over again. I was told “No Mr. $#$@ you don’t want to cancel really“. I told whomever I was talking to yes and if you don’t I will seek legal counsel. Finally, they canceled BUT the end wasn’t anywhere near soon enough for me. They canceled my account but for some reason still were trying to get the monthly fee. I kept a close eye on my account, I was told by friends AOL sometimes doesn’t stop taking there monthly fee. I went down to my bank to put a stop payment for AOL on my checking account. You would think it’s over right. I haven’t had AOL for 2-3 years. I just called AOL a month or so ago, I was told I owe them for past payment. I wasn’t very nice to whomever I was talking to. AOL never really truly goes away. I’m not even going to get started on there tech area. Do they speak English? I now have High Speed Cable.
Good Luck, Mike
June 21st, 2006 at 8:57 am
I just wanted you to know that I had the SAME experience. Thanks for bringing it out. They made it a miserable experience, but at the end of the day, there is no use for AOL anymore.
June 21st, 2006 at 9:12 am
Another AOL comment if you can stand one more. My mother signed a contract with AOL about October 2004 for 12 months. She died 6 months into the contract. Even though we called, sent written requests, and mailed a certified copy of the death certificate, AOL still charged her credit card 2 months after she died for a $50.00 cancellation fee. Thanks for standing up and calling attention to a company that uses improper business practices.
June 21st, 2006 at 9:15 am
Same story with me. I did a free 90 day trial period when I first moved to Florida. The SOB at the other end of the AOL Customer Service line would not let me cancel my membership. After telling them that I don’t need or want to use their service, they put another person on the phone. Honestly, it was dealing with Time Share Salespeopl who just don’t let up!!! Finally I said “F*ck AOL, and you and if you were the last internet provider on earth I would start writing letters and going snail mail again!” I let my bank handle it. Told them to NOT accept any charges from AOL and the whole ugly story behind trying to quit my free service. I agree with one of the other people who posted here, the higher ups at AOL know full well this is how they train their staff to deal with people who want to cancel their service. Once the heat of your appearance on the Today show quiets down it will be business, all be it BAD business, as usual.
AOL SUCKS!!!
JMO
Mary
June 21st, 2006 at 9:24 am
Berfore the publicity they were probably rewarding this guy for his ability to keep customers.
June 21st, 2006 at 9:30 am
Vinny,
The real crime here was that ‘Jon’ got fired for doing what AOL forces him to do. If you recall he told you that if you wanted to cancel, you’d have to listen to his “paragraph”. Who talks like that? What he was trying to tell you was that AOL forces him to read the paragraph and he could get fired if he did not. I had the same problem back in 1995 and the guy almost cried because I wouldn’t let me read the paragraph. He finally said, in a low voice, “I’m only doing my job”. I said - go ahead and read your paragraph.
Jon also told you that he could “stall” you all day. He used that term which should let you know that it was something that is in the culture of the company.
Get real, do you think Jon really wanted to stay on the phone with you? He was annoyed to.. that he had to pull up your account and look at your hours and all of that, all the while knowing you want to cancel.. He got the short end of the stick. He was rude, but your frustration made you rude and his frustration with the AOL culture may have made him rude.
Imagine if you had to tell someone they “needed” AOL - who in the world “needs” AOL?? If I had to peddle that BS, I’d go bonkers every now and again too.
Bottom line, the apology is not sincere. Look at the FCC website and find all the fines against AOL for this same thing. No employee would risk it after such publicity unless he was told he had to do so. AOL is up to no good and needs to stop. The fines they are given do not outweigh the revenues from the customers they keep - its simple math.
June 21st, 2006 at 9:30 am
I heard your interview with Matt Lauer and couldn’t beleive that so many other people have had a hard time cancelling AOL. I thought I was the only one. My calls to AOL were also interminably long and by the time I was done, they had offered me another free month of service. Because I just wanted to get off the phone, I stupidly accepted thinking I’ll just cancel the next month, but of course, the thought of calling back and going through all of it again is why AOL wins and I am still a “member”. Haven’t used the service in months. Today, I will cancel and hopefully, due to your story, it won’t be as bad!! Thanks for bringing this to the public.
June 21st, 2006 at 9:54 am
Ah, I too tried to cancle my acct 2 months ago and am still being charged for it. I don’t even access it any longer!
You go Vincent!!
June 21st, 2006 at 10:24 am
I think this is article about problems with AOL is great. It’s hard to believe nobody documented an AOL customer service call before with all the reported problems with AOL.
Two quick points:
First of all, I don’t buy the apology from AOL given by Nicholas Graham, Executive Vice President of AOL Corporate Communications. Why would an employee of AOL in this situation (and all the employees in all the reported situations) go so inredibly out of their way to violate AOL company policy just to prevent a customer from cancelling their AOL account? It makes absolutely zero sense. You’d think that it would be so much easier for the employee to just cancel the account. Why would the employee make their job so much more difficult for themselves and enrage a customer when they can just “follow company policy” and take care of the matter promptly. I have never known anybody to willingly make their job more difficult for no reason! And, to think that “Jon” went so far out of his way to violate AOL’s customer service policy in the process is just an insult to everyone’s intelligence, especially when you have to assume their was nothing to gain on his part (i.e. commission).
Second, it so hard to believe that AOL has escaped so much scrutiny and animosity over the years for completely dumbing down the Internet, gouging customers, and holding people hostage to its system. So much rancor has been directed towards Microsoft, but at least Windows and Internet Explorer let you know there is an Internet out there. They give you options to use other browsers and help you understand how to use the Internet. A lot of AOL users still don’t even know how to type in a URL. The easy to use AOL interface may have once had its place, but the web has changed. Through busy signals, high rates, poor performance, and the havoc AOL products can reek on your computer system, it’s just such a shame that people continue to use their service. Well, I guess I now see why. If AOL doesn’t let you cancel your account…then I guess you have no choice.
June 21st, 2006 at 10:31 am
Bravo Vinny!!!
I woke up this morning and found that my husband had taped your interview on the Today Show. It immediately brought back the heart palpitations I experienced the day I tried to cancel. After approximately a 25 minute go-round with the A.O.L. rep, many expletives on my end (I commend you for your patience) my husband finally had to take the phone from me and finish (another 10 minutes)and he ended up hanging up on them. My rep insisted that we wait for her computer to take the information which was an extremely slow process. Maybe AOL needs to update their software. She said the account would not be cancelled until she could cancel in her computer. I doubt very much that anyone was fired because the script was exactly the same. After we finally hung up neither of us was sure if the account would be cancelled but I did receive a confirmation letter from the them the following week.
I commend you for taking this to the next level. I really wanted to reach through the phone and choke the life out of her. Maybe with advancing technology we will be able to do that some day.
June 21st, 2006 at 11:07 am
Sorry they got caught is right!
I HAVE A GREAT STORY. My husband called to cancel an AOL account that was in my name. After the run around, the gal asked to speak directly to me. I got on the phone and plainly said, “Please cancel the account.” She then gave me the same run around. I stayed polite and again said, “Cancel the account.” Her response was, “DO YOU ALWAYS DO WHAT YOUR HUSBAND TELLS YOU TO DO?” I was livid, lost my cool, and after profuse swearing on my part and her using the same line, “I don’t understand why you’re so upset,” she finally canceled the account. I called AOL to complain, and I never received any kind of response. Good for you.
June 21st, 2006 at 11:08 am
I HAVE A GREAT STORY. My husband called to cancel an AOL account that was in my name. After the run around, the gal asked to speak directly to me. I got on the phone and plainly said, “Please cancel the account.” She then gave me the same run around. I stayed polite and again said, “Cancel the account.” Her response was, “DO YOU ALWAYS DO WHAT YOUR HUSBAND TELLS YOU TO DO?” I was livid, lost my cool, and after profuse swearing on my part and her using the same line, “I don’t understand why you’re so upset,” she finally canceled the account. I called AOL to complain, and I never received any kind of response. Good for you.
June 21st, 2006 at 11:20 am
Heather’s “Marketing at Microsoft” Blog
I don’t know how to make this any clearer for you: cancel my account!…
Saw Vincent on the Today Show this AM. He’s the guy that taped his call to AOL to cancel his account…….
June 21st, 2006 at 11:27 am
Saw you on the Today show regarding cancelling aol. I am a computer consultant and the only residential work we do is for business clients. They will ask us to go to their house to setup stuff and a popular request is when they get broadband and leave dialup.
If they have aol I always mention that the cable or DSL provider is now their ISP and aol is no longer providing that function so they might want to consider cancelling aol.
I have seen this same scenerio dozens of times even after I prep them that it is difficult to cancel aol. They will call and after a wait and threading thru an antomated system they politely ask to cancel their account. They are asked why and they reply they have a new broadband ISP and don’t need aol. They are told how important aol is and that they will loose their screenmane *forever* and they need aol with their new ISP. I suggested that clients also give other responses such as “I am moving into a retirement home, I am leaving the country, I decided I don’t want to use a computer anymore” etc and none of those responses are acceptable.
The aol person keeps insisting they need it and offers various discounts and logic why they shouldn’t cancel.
The minimum call I have ever heard was 30 minutes. The longest was almost an hour. A few mentioned that charges still appeared on their credit card after cancelling. One said they even had to cancel the card after making multiple requests and aol started charging another card without asking.
Contrast this with every other dialup provider I have seen where you simply go to the “I want to cancel my service” web page and at the most get asked to pick from a few choices why you cancelled.
June 21st, 2006 at 11:35 am
My mother-in-law died in the fall of 2004 and it took me several months to get AOL to cancel the account. I only noticed the charge on her credit card after my husband had me take over her bills, so when I called to cancel, telling “John” that she had died and no longer needed AOL, he kept trying to give her a discount on the service if I’d leave it open. I repeated that she had died, and that there was no phone line at the house, the house was being sold, and please cancel it. He offered me another “great package” every time I told him this.
I said, “She has died, she has ceased to be. She is no more.” I tried doing the Monty Python Dead Parrot routine, which did not move him. I was near hysterical laughter at the ridiculousness of the thing.
This guy was EXACTLY like the idiot you got on the phone; he kept me on the phone for 45 minutes, actually asked to speak to my mother-in-law, said she’d have to cancel the account, and then would start arguing with me all over again, “You need AOL, you need to keep it for the email account. Was there a problem with the service?” on and on.
It’s a game, a huge game.
I asked to speak to his supervisor and he became rude with me, and after talking to me for another ten minutes while he “waited for his supervisor to be available” he hung up on me. I called back and got someone in India who was actually polite, did not insist on reading me a statement, did not argue with me, and promised to cancel the account.
The following month there was another charge. I called again, was told the account was cancelled but that they had the right to charge us for that month. I countered with a threat to call the state Attorney General, and the account was cancelled and two months charges were refunded to us.
Honestly, this guy asked to speak to my dead mother-in-law.
My dad has AOL. He will be 88 this summer. When the time comes, I will be sure to tape my cancellation discussion with this company.
Thank you.
Jeanne
June 21st, 2006 at 12:22 pm
My two nieces used to work for aol and they told me that’s how they are taught to respond to people that want to cancel their account. Do whatever it takes to keep the customer. If you lose too many customers, you lose your job.
When I called to cancel my account I was armed with this knowledge and was ready to do battle.
My girl did everything she could think of to keep me. First, if you can believe this, she told me she could not cancel my account at that time and I would have to call back next month to cancel. What?! I told her no. This would be my only call.
She offered me 2 free months. I said make it 6 and you have a deal. No, that’s too many.
After more arguing she put me on hold for 5 minutes “to ask her supervisor if it was ok to cancel me”. My nieces told me this is another tactic they use once you’ve made them mad in order to stall you. Apparently they think they’re really getting you with this one.:roll:
I don’t believe the appology was sincere and I don’t believe John was fired either. That letter of appololy is just another way to pacify people because you went public with this.
June 21st, 2006 at 1:18 pm
i am so disappointed in the way that the general public is vilifying “john” for doing his job! vincent was incredibly rude! we are human beings, people! he simply followed company guidelines for connecting on a personal level with the member in order to acertain their motives for cancelling. do you know how often members call us with absolutely no information to be able to properly verify an accounts info, then rages at us for their inconvenience? how would they like it if we let their online stalker have free reign to their private info, just because the got a little upset and screamed at us?
where john made his mistake is that he let a total JERK get under his skin and lowered himself to the level of someone whose idea of cust svc doesnt extent past the drive through window at mickey d’s! for that, his job is forfeit, he is aware of that, and we all feel sympathy for him, but he screwed up. maintaining a professional demeanor is difficult but necessary. vincent, you deserve to be sued for recording a call over state lines without both parties awareness, talk about breaking the law! get a good attorney, buddy! i wish people would realize how many comapnies who are monopolies in their field just dont care whether they loose you or not. i triend to cancel my cable service because it wasnt working, do you think they even once asked me why i chose to leave them? why should they care? well, at aol, WE DO CARE. our product is the #1 in the industry for a reason. don’t fault us for treating you like your business is worth our time!
June 21st, 2006 at 1:21 pm
Vincent, I applaud your efforts to bring to our attention the bad customer service of the largest internet provider in the world. I admit it is bad even though I worked in the “retention” queue of AOL (or “saves” as it’s called in the company) for about 7 months. From one side, I feel for the employee because he got fired. He was trying, however poorly and unsuccessfully, to do his job and he does deserve that because he was so bad. But unfortunately, there are still thousands of others just as bad or worse that are blindly following AOL’s policies.
The 3 weeks of training you go through to “save” members is really more like brainwashing. They convince you that you really are doing the best thing for the member. Showing them all the great things they will give up by cancelling, all the “benifits” and perks that other services don’t provide. This may be true, and I was actually pretty good at convincing people to stay. I even did it with class and respect, unlike the employee you dealt with. They pay you bonuses on top of your hourly rate for how many saves you get, and with my results, I was paid better than any other job I’d had in the past. But after a while, the job became painful. Not because I had to deal with rotten people - and believe me, I dealt with my fair share - but because I realized that I wasn’t helping these people. I was just annoying them as you say in the recording. I did feel bad after talking to the 80 year old grandmothers who signed up for their spoiled grandkids to be nice and then got screwed by AOL with charges and lies. I even dealt with the occasional deceased member - it is a task to convince their grieving relative to stay with AOL.
In the end, I quit because of the guilt of what I was doing and the “carpal tunnel syndrome” of my brain from asking the same questions and repeating the same script over and over. I think customer service is one of the most difficult jobs there is and if the executives in charge would try it for a day, they would agree and maybe even change some policies. But we know that will never happen and these horrible tactics will continue because they are still making money doing it this way, and not losing enough - even with this bad publicity - to make the change.
Even though I have high speed with a different company, I still have my AOL account, mainly to keep my long time email address. But I know if the day ever comes to cancel it, I can do it with confidence. For those who still need to cancel their AOL accounts, try mailing a registered, return receipt requested, letter to AOL here:
AOL
PO BOX 17100
Jacksonville, FL 32245-7100
In addition, fax the same request to 1-703-433-7283.
Just keep this legal junk in mind. If you miss one thing they won’t cancel the account. And keep copies for yourself as well.
From the AOL website:
“If you choose to write or fax us, please include a brief note stating the nature of your request, the primary billing contact’s full name, phone number, address and handwritten signature.
In addition to that, for account security purpose please provide any one of the following:
-The master screen name of the AOL account
-The last four digits of the current method of payment (for your security, please include only the last four digits)
-The answer to the account security question of the master screen name.
Cancellation will take effect within 72 hours of receipt of your request and AOL will send you a written confirmation. Please note that AOL LLC reserves the right to charge and collect fees, surcharges or costs incurred before your cancellation takes effect.”
Hopefully this helps any other members who are having trouble with this. Last thing to keep in mind - large corporations are brutal and willing to do almost anything to keep their customers. They will lie, cheat, and steal and somehow justify it later in apologies and PR statements. Customers shouldn’t have to put up with it, but try not to take it out on the CSR who is doing their job. Respectful persistance goes a long way in getting what you want.
June 21st, 2006 at 1:28 pm
just a work about the above post from brad, the jacksonville call center was previously closed this year, can you say “disgruntled employee”? the 3 weeks of training we go through at aol are to inundate us in the culutre of aol, yes, OF COURSE! it’s not brainwashing, that’s rediculous, next thing you know you’ll be saying there needs to be mass interventions in which we are encouraged to leave or employment where the atmosphere is one of competetive fun and spirit and find jobs making have the money to balm some sort of guilt we dont even feel! if you use aol, you are in a safer environment, period. facts are facts. we have the right to charge for that safety, but we understand that the consumer has the right to cancel. we will do so if given the chance to do our jobs properly, always.
June 21st, 2006 at 1:49 pm
The Dinoblog » Update on Vincent Ferrari and AOL
[...] I continue to be fascinated by this story. He finally received a personal apology by AOL. But I wonder, would Vincent have gotten this apology from the VP of AOL Corporate Communications had this not become as popular as it did? Probably not. Its an obvious public relations move by them in light of all the publicity and I have a hard time believing its sincere. I doubt Vincent’s story, or that of hundreds of other people who have tried to cancel, will lead to any changes in the way AOL handles customer relations. June 21, 2006 10:48 am | Filed under: [...]
June 21st, 2006 at 2:46 pm
When I called to cancel my AOL membership I, like so many others, experienced the same exact long drawn out conversation! I cancelled during a break-up where my name was on the account and I was leaving the residence…why I explained that to the guy in customer service was a last ditch effort to just get the membership cancelled, and get off the phone - but it was terrible! Good going, Vincent!
June 21st, 2006 at 3:14 pm
I can’t even tell you how this hit home. My husband and I had the same situation 3 years ago when we tried to do the same. We were “disconnected”, re routed, and argued with throughout the entire process. If this happened 3 years ago I find it hard to believe that someone hasn’t brought this issue up to the higher ups before. They are quite clearly not concerned with their customer service. Why else the extra ad budget. People leave because they are unhappy. It took a hold on their unauthorized charges to our AMEX card, and approximately 3 hours of spamming them to get them to agree. (Only to have them re-activate the account without our authorization, this happen to anyone else?? They said it reactivated when we clicked the icon on the desktop. If it is cancelled the first time, the icon shouldn’t work.Are they kidding me????)
June 21st, 2006 at 3:36 pm
It’s about time. I had an AOL account for two months because I needed dial up. Once my need for dialup was over, I called to cancel. 55 minutes later they were still begging me to try AOL for Broadband, 2 free months, etc etc etc. They asked me who I was going to use for ISP, I told them Time Warner (road runner). They never heard of them. HELLO !!! You are the same company.
AOL is not sorry, John shouldn’t have lost his job, his supervisor and all the higher ups should have because they are the ones telling him to do this. John was not an isolated bad CSR, he was trained to be this way.
June 21st, 2006 at 3:57 pm
I got rid of AOL almost 2 years ago after they so lovingly blocked my account because of ’spam mail’ when I tried to contact them to fix the problem I was told they would not talk to me because I was not the primary account holder. They would only talk to my husband, who had put me on the account from the very beginning as the person to deal with. When I informed them that my husband was in fact out of the country they asked if I had a phone number they could reach him at. I tried several times to explain to him that he was out of the COUNTRY…Finally I told them that if before he returned in 6 months there was any type of charge to the bank account, I would sue. I called the bank and they put a stop to the revolving charge immediately. After almost an hour of being treated like a child I told her in not such a nice manner that I was glad my husband put his life on the line every day to give AOL the freedom to (you can take it from there) When my husband did return and called to make sure that account was closed, after they sent us a bill for 6 months of non payment…he had a hard time closing the account also. Thank God someone finally brought this to light, because they are good at what they do..AOL may say that this is not they way they operate, but I’m sure there is an entire course these people take on how to act this way.
June 21st, 2006 at 5:06 pm
I was getting ready for work when I heard the conversation on the Today Show between you and AOL. It immediatley caught my attention (and put a pit in my stomach) as I have had not 1 but 3 identical conversations with 3 different AOL staff members all using the same physco bable “I’m trying to help you” yadda yadda yadda. They don’t take “no” for an answer. If AOL fired 1 guy, they would have to fire all of their Customer service staff because I believe they have been trained to manipulate the public into submission. I’m now down to $4.95 a month as I gave in to them.. . weak on my part. I’m going to sign the “cancel request form” on the back of my last “confirmation of continued service”. I’m so glad you have started the ball rolling in alerting the public. For all of you out there who want to cancel, sign a form to cancel rather than call in. It works and you won’t have to go through the demeaning behaviour of AOL customer relations staff on the phone.
June 21st, 2006 at 5:06 pm
I had a very similar experience with AOL when I called to inquire about the price for their high-speed service. The female “CSR” I spoke too would not stop trying to sell me the same crap services over and over after I told her I was not interested because of the price. So I ultimately had to just hang up on her while she was still trying to sell crap to me. That is when I decided that I would never do business with or call AOL ever again.
June 21st, 2006 at 5:51 pm
I saw the segment on CNBC about the troubles with cancelling with AOL. About 6 months ago I went through the same thing when trying to cancel my AOL account. I went though a recording and then put on hold for about 1/2 hour before I got to speak with a customer service representative. When asking to cancel my account I got the 1000 questions on why. After they heard my reason of I don’t use it enough for what I am paying a month. I was getting offered free trial periods and then discounted rates. After all was being said I told the representative that I was not interested and I was about to hang up the phone so please cancel the account. The representative then got the last word in saying that I will receive an email about my free trial period. I then had to go though everything again. With all said and done I went through HELL trying to cancel this account and never thought I was only one. These guys are trained to get the member not to cancel and I believe that the guy John who was let go was doing his job. When hearing all of the same complaints about cancelling your AOL account why does AOL still have a customer service department? Shouldn’t all these representatives be fired!!
June 21st, 2006 at 5:56 pm
My story is the same as yours, Vincent. I signed up with my cable company and no longer wanted AOL. I was totally taken by suprise when the AOL rep started hammering me with how many hours of use I had, I shouldn’t cancel because my Time Warner Cable Company owned AOL, I needed to retain my email address. I responded to his every comment with ‘I don’t care, I just called to cancel my account.’ Like the others, my call lasted around a half hour. In a week or so, I did receive my cancellation confirmation letter. In reading the other comments, I think I may have been charged for an extra month of access for no reason but it was too long ago (last March) for me to remember those exact details. Hallelujah, I did manage to get cancelled!
I, too, believe that ‘John’ wasn’t fired. That was just one more shot at you, the subscriber, to continue the guilt trip.
June 21st, 2006 at 6:05 pm
Just saw you on the Today webcast…excellent job!
I myself had a similarly frustrating call with AOL. My mother recently needed to cancel AOL, and I told her that her best line of defense would be to tell them she is moving to a remote African village with no electricity or phone lines. Funny that you need a good story or defense to get customer service!
Thanks for sheding light to this all too common nightmare!!
June 21st, 2006 at 6:06 pm
AOL continued to charge me for two accounts for almost two years even though I had cancelled both. I finally had to go to my bank to complete an unauthorized draft and cancel my bank account as well. I was never refunded my money. As far as that bogus apology goes, “john” was just doing his job. Why would everyone who calls AOL to cancel their accounts also always get the runaround? that’s what employees are trained to do. john was doing his job, to keep you from cancelling your account. after calling on numerous occasions, i’ve been told the same thing over and over again, how much usage i have, how they want me to continue the account, questions about why i want to cancel the account, etc., etc.
June 21st, 2006 at 6:10 pm
Please forward my email to them as well. I tried to cancel my account a few years ago and got the same run around with a rude person that kept offering me free days. Not only that but they continued to charge my checking account for 6 months after I cancelled. After numerous calls to them I finally, FINALLY got my money back. However, about 6 months after that I got a bill in the mail for $80 that I owed them for months that they kept charging my account. I called them once again and was told they didn’t cancel my account when I told them to that’s why these charges had racked up. My precise words were “so I have to pay because someone there didn’t do their job and cancel my account when I requested it.” I was told yes. I haven’t paid them to this day neither will I. My parents had the same problem they were charged over and over again as well. So please, if their so “customer oriented” give them my email and have them contact me. Good for you i’m proud of you for standing up to the big “corporate” jerks.
June 21st, 2006 at 6:24 pm
I was actually employed at AOL for about 2 months, six weeks was training as a “Retention Specialist.” Even as an employee people working there don’t like what they do. That’s why AOL has such a high turnover rate and pays their retentionists 14.00 an hour and up PLUS bonuses for every person who calls in to cancel but doesn’t. One of the easiest ways that employees get what’s called a “save” is to offer more free months. They get paid when a person stays for 24 hours and again if they stay for 90 days. They’re motto is to be assumptive, don’t let the customer cancel on you is what they tell you. If the employee doesn’t save at least 60% of their calls, their job is in serious jeopardy. To illustrate how high the turnover rate is, at the beginning of my training, my class had 26 people in it. When I quit, about two months later, there were 3 people left from my class. I agree that the AOL apology was for publicity reasons and also firmly believe that this kind of practice will continue for this company. I promise you, this is more disappointing to the people who get brainwashed into thinking that what they’re doing is right, all for the almighty buck.
June 21st, 2006 at 6:39 pm
As a former employee of AOL, let me tell everyone out there good luck with a smooth AOL cancellation. I worked as a “Retention Specialist.” Otherwise known as the jerk on the other end of the line when you call to cancel. If an employee in this department doesn’t “save” at least 60% of the people that call to cancel, their job is in serious jeopardy. If the person stays for 24 hours and then 90 days, the employee gets bonuses for that person. Sometimes up to $3 per save. Now you know why they’re so intent on keeping their customers. I agree that the apology was just for publicity and seriously doubt that the company has changed their policy on cancellations.
June 21st, 2006 at 6:43 pm
I tried to cancel a couple of years ago and went through a lot of the same hassle. The account was being paid by automatic charges to my credit card but the card expired shortly after I cancelled.
About 4 months later I received a huge bill for the previous months’ service, with a threat that it would go to a collection agency. It took me forever to get them off my back. Even though I had not used the account, since I figured it was cancelled, they said there was considerable use on the account.
They also told me that I should have gotten the name of the individual who took my cancellation - as if a real name was ever given!
I truly doubt that anyone was fired over Vincent’s situation. Thanks Vincent for getting it out there!
June 21st, 2006 at 6:44 pm
Hi,
Love the story. My friend had EXACTLY the same problem, but he ultimately woosed out, and still has his AOL account (but just doesn’t use it (smart, huh)). This leads me to believe that AOL’s apology is disingenuous. In your interviews, you have been asked if you regret that you got the guy fired. Are you specifically aware that a) you and your incident are why the guy got fired, or that b) he didn’t quit or get fired for some other reason. The letter from AOL states, “This matter was dealt with immediately and appropriately, and the employee cited here is no longer with the Company.” “No longer with the company” does not say “Because of this incident”. He may have been fired, or quit, and perhaps for other reasons. He also may have been the unlucky scapegoat of this attention to THE COMPANY’S tactics.
Either way, he may no longer be there coincidentally. Your regret that he got fired makes it almost seem that the company is getting off the hook as if it was some anomoly or rogue employee, as opposed to saying, “Well, since others have had the same experience as I have, I assume if John was let go he was just a scapegoat, even though he was just doing what he was told to do, and towing the company line.”
I think this may highlight that the corporation is responsible for this shoddy CRM and their PR “after-the-fact” is insincere.
Your current dialogue is almost forgiving. Don’t let these bastards off so easy!
Thanks.
June 21st, 2006 at 6:46 pm
I think it’s shameful to fire a telephone representative for behavior that was obviously encouraged by his superiors. This man was obviously trained not to take “cancel my account” seriously, and that training is a very high level AOL policy.
How many people do you suppose call to cancel and wind up with another month or more, simply because they don’t want to be argumentative? This is good policy for subscription services, but bad policy for consumers. I believe that the FTC should get on this immediately, it’s at least as bad as telemarketing and probably costs consumers as much as identity theft.
I had similar trouble trying to cancel a credit card account with Discover a few years back. The second I said I was going to cancel, they transferred my call to another department, where I left the harried front line CS rep for a cool customer with a (can you believe it) Texas - Bostonian accent. He instantly began assaulting me from all sides, trying to draw me into an argument, trying to make me understand how it made bad basic financial sense to cancel this card (that I rarely used because of its high rates, high fees and tendency to ignore my automatic payments). I finally got him to cut the card by saying, “Look, I agree with you. It’s probably a bad idea. But now that you’re trying to convince me not to cancel, I’m more adamant about it that ever. I can’t lose this argument. I guess I’m just an asshole like that.”
June 21st, 2006 at 7:11 pm
i currently have aol, but it is just because my husband wants them. i can’t stand aol. about 3 years ago, we got a gateway computer with 1 yr free aol. my husband already had another account set up to check his email so we used that log in name thinking we had a free year. two months and 150.00 debited from our account later, we were advised that we had to open a new account to get the 1 yr free. i begged them to credit the 150.00 and they refused. i asked to speak to a supervisor and i was advised they did not have any. that’s right. not that one was not available, i was told they did not have any. i was so mad, i was ready to explode and we still never got any of our money back.
June 21st, 2006 at 7:25 pm
Yeah I agree with one of the comments that the executive only apologized because this came out in the news. We were a victim too of this practice by AOL. Last year we canceled our account and the CSR said ok and that we could still use the service until the end of that period (month) cause we already paid for it. Guess what happened the following month… instead of cancelling our service they charged us again, through automatic debit of my account, for another month. When I called to complain they said because we didn’t call them “again” to cancel. So we argued that that was the reason for my call the previous month. To make a long story short they wouldn’t cancel the payment but this time I insisted and requested a cancelation number. So all of you out there, in case you don’t know always ask for a cancelation number.
June 21st, 2006 at 7:27 pm
I too had a nightmare with AOL if fact I cancelled my subscription after a long argument and they continued to debit my credit card which caused more phone calls and similar treatment
I finally changed my credit card number with b of a and they somehow followed to the new number it wasnt until I threatened B of A with a complaint to the feds that they stopped honoring the debit
by the way Rapsody does the same thing
the truth is that AOL probably gives incentives to phone employees who convince customers to stay on nobody gives all that grief without some sort of monetary carrot you are my hero
June 21st, 2006 at 7:29 pm
Everybody has this problem with AOL. The thing everyone needs to do is never subscribe to it again. And tell everyone you know the same thing.
June 21st, 2006 at 7:37 pm
Dennis from NY Says:
June 21st, 2006 at 7:22 pm
Vincent , saw you on NBC Today show thanks for taping and bringing to light the “in MY opinion the practices” of AOL in refusing to cancel a person’s account, yes AOL will blame the customer service rep
who tried to talk you into staying , yes he deserved to be let go not fired as i truly believe he was just carrying out the AOL managements desires
and philosophy don’t let them cancel no matter what! As for me yes in 2001
my daughter graduated from USC in LA and I called and she called not once not twice but several times to no avail until i threatened a lawsuit. to cancel her account . Net result was they still stiffed my daughter’s credit card account for about $50.00
I’d like you, since you are somewhat of a crusader for the AOL cancel problem to organize us at this blog into a class action lawsuit against aol
to re-imburse all aol customers wrongly billed and not cancelled when they asked to. OH by the way if your listening AOL you got me for 50.00 but you lost many many more dollars from me in the long run as i don’t do business with you or your parent company if i can help it.
June 21st, 2006 at 8:30 pm
Vincent,
Your experience was identical to mine… except I cancelled my AOL account FOUR YEARS AGO! John is not a rogue employee and Nicholas and Zach are no different than Ken and Jeffrey. Denial is not just a river in Africa! They can fire all the John’s they want but until you get rid of the management that fosters and promotes this kind of behavior, nothing will change. AOL is aware that they have the most uninformed and, unfortunately, some of the least enlightened online consumers. They are the easiest to confuse, confound and ultimately con into keeping their account. Honestly, how many others decided that $15 a month was worth not having to deal with the hassle of dealing with a “John”? Too many, and that’s why the “policy” remains. I guarantee that if you follow up in 3 days, 3 weeks or 3 months you will see the exact same treatment and that the sincerity that Nicholas proffesses is nothing but smoke and mirrors…
June 21st, 2006 at 8:41 pm
I just tried to cancel AOL yesterday and got the same response all of you did. However, I’ve cancelled AOL before so was prepared for the long list of excuse that they were going to throw at me. I got a hold of a lady and told her I wanted to cancel, then she went on and on about why I was cancelling, I was using AOL for so much length of time. I told her plain and simple, I didn’t need it anymore. She kept goin…after about 10 minute she started in on her different rate plan. I told her to stop right there, I wanted to cancel and do not need to hear the rate plan. She said it was her job to tell me, and I told her, that’s fine, you can pretend you already told me, but I do not need to listen to it. So she kept trying tell me the rate plan, as my voice started to show a bit of annoyance. She then had the nerve to tell me that if I didn’t calm down that she was going to hang up on me. I told her that I was not being mean yet, and that I was simply stating I do not need to hear the rate plan. So as she started to get ruder than the beginning, I told her I want it cancelled and just hung up. I called back again after 1 min. and got someome else. She asked me when had I called, I said about a few minutes ago. She said my account was already cancelled and if I wanted the cancellation # which she gave to me. I thanked her and hung up. Then I tried to log into AOL, and it showed that the account was cancelled, however it popped up a message asking if I wanted to reactivate the account. I just clicked “No”. So here is an advice to those that want to cancel, call in…and tell them you want to cancel the account. Wait a few minute and then just state you want cancel and hang up. Then call them back again, you will usually get someone else. Check to see if your account was really cancelled, if it is get the Cancellation #. Then try to log into AOL to make sure that the account is actually gone. Of course for the next few months I’m going to keep an eye out on my bank statement to make sure that charges aren’t going through, because it would be fraud to charge me for services that I am not receiving, since I can’t get onto AOL anymore.
June 21st, 2006 at 8:54 pm
“Zero tolerance” for abuse my butt. This is COMPANY POLICY! I was a charter member of AOL back in the old 2400 baud dialup days when there were only 400,000 members total. It was a VERY different company then that really did believe in customer service. I had 2 or 3 accounts over a period of as many years. It didn’t take longer than 5 minutes ONLINE to cancel an account then. It was all automated and you did it yourself!
After they became huge and successful they gradually made it more and more difficult to cancel the service. It now takes numerous call and/or threats of legal action to cancel. They hope you’ll just give up and stop fighting (You will be assimilated, resistance is futile)!
Also, as others have mentioned, the software can actually damage your Windows registry making life after AOL miserable even if you do manage to cancel. It can take hours to clean up the mess it leaves behind, even for a computer tech.
Here’s how to get out with as little headache and some satisfaction as well - Tell them to cancel the account, and when (not if) they start philibustering you, tell them LOUDLY AND FIRMLY that the matter is NOT up for discussion, you will NOT answer any questions and you WILL file a consumer fraud complaint with the Federal Trade Commission and have your bank reverse the charges on your card if they continue charging you. Record the conversation if possible, log the time and date, then follow up on your promises if you get charged again.
June 21st, 2006 at 9:32 pm
A year ago, I also cancelled. It was crazy!!! “Was it something we said, did. Can we offer you a free trial for 30 days. Tell us exactly why you want to cancel.” It just wenr on and on and like Vince, I kept saying, “I just want to cancel my account.” I believe I told them also that with their rates, it was just too much for me. Oh yeah, my daughter noted too many viruses came through on AOL, and it should be noted that it would be anywhere from 10 minutes into 30 minutes while I was on hold. It was a nightmare! Thank you VInce for tackling this problem.
June 21st, 2006 at 9:34 pm
this is so rediculous! after reading all these posts here, all i can say is “get off your soapbox!” as a former employee of aol, i can say that the job i performed in retention was one of the most stressful i’ve ever had. people are IDIOTS sometimes. it would amaze us as to how many people would fault us for their own bad business sense. of course there are incentives to promote retention of an account. the job is essentially a SALES job. all sales jobs have incentives. it was our job to sell aol and its benefits (of which there are many). do you begrudge us for trying to excel at our careers? honest, genuine cust service is valuable and should be rewarded. ask the other 99% of aol customers who are loyal and satisfied whether the rep who handled their problem deserved to be paid for it. i used to have people send me gifts cards out of their own pockets as a thank you for excellent service! not all aol cust feel the way these few people featured here do.
it is stupid to say aol messes up your registry files. that statement had to have been made by an armchair tech who knows NOTHING about what he’s talking about, too bad he has a forum like this to spread his ignorance. i
f we are told to cancel, we have to cancel, period. the problem is…people dont listen to what they’re agreeing to. if we offered a free month or a dif rate, you had to have agreed to it or the account doesnt remain active. gaming an account will get you walked out the door at aol. the only reason this is getting so much attention is due to the poor rep losing his cool in the face of an asshole. he may have had a family, mortgage, bills, etc. who knows how many responsibilities that man shouldered? let me guess… if your order is wrong at a resaurant, do you try to get the waiter fired? get over yourself, vinny-boy. enjoy your petty 15 mins and make them work for you. such an abrasive mentality probably means you have very little interpersonal relationships, no wonder you have nothing better to do than record your every converstaion. get a life. i am so disgusted right now. the only reson i would EVER have left aol’s employ is due to a move out of state. i was considered one of the best in retention at my call center, not by my supervisors, but by the members themselves. my cust satisfaction ratings were exceptionally high. despite that, after hearing your call it made me wish i could follow YOU around with a recorder at your own job (if you actually HAVE one) and set every irrational jerk possible on you. it would be entertaining to see how long it takes to break YOU.
June 21st, 2006 at 9:53 pm
to: i love my aol
Here’s the problem you can’t seem to wrap your little brain around, and the point that most of us are trying to make.
Your job is NOT to sell your product/service……YOUR ONLY JOB is to serve the customer…
Look at the comments again…AOL has lost customers FOREVER!!! (They’ve also lost a lot of class action suits concerning their unethical customer service practices….so I guess that speaks to their dedication to their members)
June 21st, 2006 at 10:06 pm
What is “absolutely inexcusable” are the lies Mr. Nicholas Graham tells! As so many have and will tell, I HAD THE SAME EXPERIENCE. In fact, I became so frustrated at the incessant questioning of my reasons and total refusal to recognize my request that after 15 minutes of it I felt my heart racing, felt faint, and thought I was having a heart attack! Seriously. And the rep started chuckling as my voice quavered. He really seemed to be enjoying my discomfort. I had to just hang up. A month later, I steeled myself and called again. I knew what was coming and managed to stay in control and get through the ordeal in less than 10 minutes.
Back to Mr. Graham. To suggest that AOL has “zero-tolerance for customer care incidents like this” is simply not true. The tidal wave of “me too” comments in this venue and others proves this sort of “customer care” is AOL retention policy, not the exception.
AOL should be ashamed of itself for yesterday’s behavior and today’s lies. And those that continue to utilize its services should reconsider supporting such a company. Finally, thank you Vincent for getting AOL the publicity they deserve.
June 21st, 2006 at 10:10 pm
First tell this former AOL guy to stick it in his cornhole..
Vincent and others, this recorded phone call is an almost exact thing that happened to me 5 years ago… I got DSL and called AOL to cancel.. the guy was just like John.. I kept saying just cancel it.. and he kept saying he needed a reason. So I said I don’t use it, I have DSL.. so he offered rate changes.. free months.. and I said no just cancel. I changed my reason for wanting to cancel about 5 times.. and no matter what I said, he refused to cancel.
I got fed up.. hung up and called my Credit card company to dispute the charges. Capital One took my complaint, and they called AOL.. then the Capitol One guy called me back and patched me into the call. He got the run around trying to get a superviser on the line to correct the problem without a credit charge dispute.. finally a superviser gets on the line.. and cancels my account in like 5 minutes.. and even back credits me a month I had already paid for… superviser claims that he has had problems witht he first guy before and their policy would probably result in his termination.
Since that time.. I have heard rumors that the customer service reps are trained to do anything to prevent you from cancelling.. and that they are somehow “docked” if they cancel too many accounts a month..
I personally think AOL is stupid and here is why… they had their time during the dialup years.. they made gazillions of money with those hourly charges etc.. now instead of trying to develop the next big thing… they are instead fighting to keep members signed up to keep the income… sad but probably true.
June 21st, 2006 at 11:30 pm
I’ve been a member of AOL since 1995 and it served me well enough - although I also used IE. Six years ago when I got a cable connection I grew out of AOL but changed the service to only 3 hours a month for $ 4.95. I found that I only used AOL to delete the spam but kept the service in case my cable connection went down. Then three years ago when I got my new computer I immediately deleted everything in the registry related to AOL and their free offer. Why muck up a clean computer?
I”ve meant to cancel AOL for a long time now and figured that since Vincent’s problem with cancelling AOL has gotten so much TV coverage, I figured that with all the bad publicity AOL would condense their questions and it wouldn’t take so long to cancel.
I don’t know if my situation is different than anyone else’s, but it took all of about 7 minutes to go thru the process. I spoke with a young man named Aaron. When he looked at my account he saw that I hadn’t used it in 6 months. Yes, he tried telling me about a $10.00 rate (why would I pay for that when I am currently paying half that?) and I kept reminding him that I don’t even have the AOL software on my computer and that according to him I haven’t used the service for more than 6 months. I also told him I don’t use AIM or any IM client. He agreed to cancel and gave me a cancellation number. I then asked him if I will be billed by AOL anymore and he said no because my month starts on the 22nd of the month and ends on the 21st. He even made a joke about me getting in under the deadline!
Aaron did tell me that my email addresses will still work. About 10 minutes after I cancelled, I went to aol.com and it says “Your AOL screen name and AOL e-mail account will remain yours for life for free even though you are no longer a paid subscriber.” Of course there is an asterik saying “Maintenance of Screen Name and e-mail account subject to AOL’s Terms of Service, Network Registered User Agreement, and the terms of the AOL products you use. Regular sign-in required.” So, do I believe that I wouldn’t have to pay for my email? I’m not taking any chances.
This was an unexpected pleasant experience!!
If you want to cancel, do it now while AOL’s feet are in the fire.
June 21st, 2006 at 11:37 pm
Just another checking in with the same story. I signed up for AOL while i was living in a hotel room with a laptop for a few months, and forgot about it once i’d gotten back home. After a year of not using it, I called to cancel, and it went down pretty much exactly as on the tape. The sheer ferocity with which this guy all but REFUSED to cancel my service after REPEATED polite requests finally sent me flying off the handle. All in all, with hold times, the call took over half an hour. I was astounded that a company would have the nerve to treat a customer that way. I understand that these are customers who are leaving the service, but a customer is a customer.
I don’t have a doubt in my mind that any of these stories are isolated. AOL’s “apology” was the most transparent, gutless, cowardly move I’ve ever seen by a company. These AOL execs know goddamn good and well that their CSR’s are ORDERED to badger customers into staying with the service, going so far as to punish them if they don’t, and then they publicly shame and dismiss a man who did they very job he was ordered to do.
I hope to god that company never recovers from the tailspin it’s been on in the last few years. They pander to the weak and stupid, touting services that are common and free to everybody else as “exclusive member benefits”.
I’m sorry to hear you publicly let them off the hook, Vince.
But hey, congrats on successfully cancelling your account.
June 21st, 2006 at 11:59 pm
Yeah yeah, the rep “was just doing his job”. That’s an excuse I WILL NOT TOLERATE again. I’ve heard that crap for too many years from too many abusive morons. It stops here. Customer service used to mean just that - service to the customer. NOT maximizing profits by stressing out people to the breaking point. If AOL would get its head out of the stone age and try actually increasing its value and service to the customer they might be able to retain more users. As someone else here said, the old dialup days are gone and no amount of abrasive business tactics are gonna change it - SO DEAL WITH IT Mr. CEO! Or get the hell out of the business!
June 22nd, 2006 at 12:38 am
the EXACT thing happened to me when I tried to cancel my account. Even when I said, “there is nothing you can say that will change my mind from cancelling my account” the guy still went on. The things that the customer rep said were very similar to what the guy I spoke to said. I’m really sure that they’re all told to act that way and say those things. I will never deal with that company every again.
June 22nd, 2006 at 12:38 am
Ya know Vincent what is really funny the most is you broke the law. You can’t knowingly record a phone conversation and withhold that from the person your speaking to, dont you know that alone can get you into some seirous trouble? If the problem wasnt as escalated at drawing negative attention to AOL im sure they would have some lawyers serving you papers. Also as a former employee when they pull your account, when they show activity on the account, its not AIM activity, its activity from signing into the software, so if AOL wasnt installed on your “dads” computer and you guys dont use it, how do you account for almost 600hrs of usage, again AIM doesnt rack up usage on your account. I mean you simply read website’s at other members comments and PLANNED out the call and had intentions of aggravating the AOL Rep. you spoke to and hoped to draw out something you’d catch on tape and hope to draw some “national attention” to yourself, and possibly looking for some settlement out of it. Well i hope your 15 minutes of fame were worth it because in all honesty it makes you look pretty stupid by wire tapping the conversation which is against the law, ecspecially across state lines as “some” states do allow call recording without both parties being aware, so you might ought to realize that you will in the end probably get off lucky. I mean you treated “Jon” like an ass from the get go. Yes, you wanted to cancel your service, but everyone on the planet knows what retention for any company is. Simply to do whatever it would take to have the member continue service. Most people dont know about all AOL offers, or the wide variety of pricing plans they offer. If you would have shut your arrogant mouth and listened for 2 minutes of Jon’s time he probably could have done what is required in ANY retention department of ANY company, told you some exclusive price plans, you could than have said not interested just cancel and had been done, but no you had to lie to the agent by saying you dont use the service when 600hrs is a TON of usage. Come on, be honest with everyone, you were looking to score on this and that is exactly why you decided to record the conversation. Now your a national idiot for doing it the way you had…. good luck
June 22nd, 2006 at 12:40 am
It depends on the state that the guy did it in. in some states it’s not illegal to record a conversation without the other person knowing.
June 22nd, 2006 at 1:21 am
regardless of the state he was in, he would also need to be speaking with someone in the same state, which means he would need to know ahead of time which call center he would get routed to which isnt humanly possible, so yes he broke the law because there are less than 5 states that allow calls to be recorded without both parties knowing, he knew he was breaking the law, and if he didnt they he really is not too intelligent.
June 22nd, 2006 at 2:00 am
Hi Vincent,
I am just amazed, stunned, shocked and enraged that AOL has made cancelling one’s account a hoop-jumping, belittling, humiliating, capitulating, insulting vile experience. I am saying this because I have read the responses other users have made to your story.
Please, Alan Avante is correct. The VP’s said what they did for the media but don’t believe it for one minute. Catholic that you are, remember that you must use some of that wisdom that made you record the conversation to realize that you must remain a wise serpent in this controversy and not a self-effasing sheep that meekly accepts any apology not worth a dime. Too many people have posted truly atrocious experiences to note that the treatment you received is par for the course-IT is the NORM!
If you do any more interviews I would quote the responses that other users have posted here to show that the treatment that was meted to you is the norm and that just as there is a “do not call list”, Congress should have to legislate a cancelation policy that is short and simple and curries what the customer wants at the time of the call. The preposterous responses that people have posted are crying out for this need. I realize that K-street lobbyists will be out in full force against such a bill because every company selling a service that uses the methods espoused by AOL will be against it.
I would also ask permission of the people who interview you to put forth your opinions on the matter now that you know how prevalent the cancellation machinery at aol is and that based on the evidence that you seriously question the validity of the apologies offered by the veeps at AOL.
I do not believe for one sec that the CSR, Jon, was fired. From the responses given by April and others, such a statement is pure pandering for the media. In any event, even if it is true, I would not weep for such a rude, disrespectful person who humiliated you in his attempt to make you do what you didn’t want to do. You were not rude to him. You simply stated your request and this Jon fellow IGNORED you. Those responders who have sided with him are either veeps at AOL or just contrarians.
Please try to use the air time that you still have to let the world know of the belittling, humiliating, criminal tactics that AOL has used for years to make its bottom line. Surely from the responses you’ve read you realize that this company is doing a serious wrong to the old, pc illiterate (as some users have stated), humble people who are being kept on, overcharged, badgered.
Cheers and fight the good fight (against AOL).
June 22nd, 2006 at 6:24 am
Hi all,
Looks like 60% of the people fall out for this kind of behavior (John’s behavior). Even in this thread we had some “weak” persons that agreed to stay in the service.
My personal philosophy is that the stupid must pay. Too many stupid people with money in America. Someone will take advantage of them – sooner or later. That being the case, it is rightfully from AOL’s perspective to put it this way:
- Most of the people calling here are too stupid or weak or uninformed to make a decision. If we don’t take their money, somebody else surely will, so why not us ? Why allow them to keep the money - surely they will loose it under similar circumstances.
More companies like AOL and soon the stupid will have to wake up. If they don’t they will suffer.
Kudos for all the people that manage to cancel the account. This is a very small life test that you managed to pass. You are stronger than 60% of the people who call. This may seems surprising considering how easy this test is.
For all the other “people” that failed: what do you expect ? Mercy ? Be happy that you are born in America, otherwise in other parts of the world you will be eaten alive.
One last note:
Education cannot be used as an excuse for failing this test. Education doesn’t mean that you are meant to be weak. This is just a simple proof of the quick decay of the human specie. If you would make this test 100 years ago, most of the people would have passed.
Have a nice day,
TeoCrat
June 22nd, 2006 at 6:32 am
It gets worse. Twice, AOL has reinstated my Compuserve account and started drafting my account for monthly fees. Each time, it was 2 or more years since the account had been cancelled. Haven’t used the account since the mid 90’s and I still have to check monthly to make sure AOL hasn’t started drafting my account again.
June 22nd, 2006 at 6:39 am
What a wonderful way to quit AOL. Tactics like yours are a great way to get AOL and similar companies to change their operations. I imagine that the quickest way for someone to quit AOL is to tell them that the call is being recorded and timed and the results will be published on the internet. This should work for anyone experiencing stall tactics from any company. Because of the bad press, AOL will likely lose millions from customers they have badgered and intimidated.
June 22nd, 2006 at 8:38 am
Watch your billing after I cancelled AOL i was billed for the following month. Hmmm…a million cancel this month only half catch the additional billing= BIG BONUS!!!
June 22nd, 2006 at 9:05 am
Hi,
Has anyone (media outlet, Vincent, etc.) tried to get in touch with “John” the “retention specialist.” It would be interesting to hear his side of the story. Or perhaps AOL has paid him pending no public statements regarding this incident. Some media bloodhound should look into this.
June 22nd, 2006 at 10:04 am
I personally have worked under Zach Catsaros (thats how you spell his name!) For many years- he recently transferred to Virgina, but I can assure you any apology from him is most definitely sincere; Zach is a stand-up man, and coming from an aol employee, I can tell you that the company really does not tolerate this type of behavior. People may have had bad experiences in the past, but I can guarantee you that if the consultant acted like John, they were terminated.
June 22nd, 2006 at 10:14 am
The apology is pure hogwash. The same thing happened to me with the dialog of the “customer service rep” almost the same. These replies are scripted. The rep would put up this unless they were forced to by the company they work for.
June 22nd, 2006 at 10:16 am
oops– I meant “wouldn’t put up this unless they were forced to be the company they work for” .
June 22nd, 2006 at 10:39 am
just want to read the aol story
June 22nd, 2006 at 11:04 am
RelevantNoise.com » How Many Bloggers Does it Take to Cancel an AOL Account?
[...] AOL responded quickly, firing the CSR (as if they hadn’t trained him to coax the customer into staying) and apologizing profusely. [...]
June 22nd, 2006 at 12:04 pm
REAL, REAL, REAL - Jon was following AOL corporate policy to the letter.
1. Never sign up for AOL!
2. Remove al AOL software from your computer now and regularly!
3. Collect all the free AOL disk laying around in public (Post Office, etc) and throw them in the trash.
4. Tell everyone AOL is a crap company and customers can get easier, faster, cheaper, and better service from any other internet company.
I had to go through this same BS a few times over 2 years in 2002 and 2003 when I was mobilized for the Army. I started 2 accounts at 2 addresses at different times and called to cancel both when I moved. I had to call back multiple times on both accounts just to keep AOL from stealing my money on subsequent credit card bills. I went through this AOL corporate policy except it took longer and the AOL reps I spoke with where bigger jerks.
I want a personnal apology from Nicholas Graham, Executive Vice President of AOL Corporate Communications!!! Nic can explain to me why the AOL is run by assholes. Post your phone number, Nic.
June 22nd, 2006 at 12:17 pm
I just read the story in the Boston herald and I had a similar incident when I went to cancel my daughters AOL Account.
It seemed like the rep just didn’t want to let go. After listening to his sales pitch about the benefits of AOL, I finally got done to brass tacks and cancel the account. After being my “friend” during this conversation, he turned very belligerent, gave me a confirmation number and stated that a letter will be forth coming confirming the cancellation and basically hung-up. That was 7 months ago and I’m still waiting for the confirmation letter.
June 22nd, 2006 at 12:55 pm
I agree with Andy throw away all of those disks and continuously delete the AOL spyware
most new systems come with AOL software it holds on like a virus
This company aggressively tries to capture and keep customers
June 22nd, 2006 at 12:55 pm
>> If you go into any place of business and want to return or cancel
>> anything, they’re going to ask you why. All you had to do was let
>> the poor guy speak and you would’ve gotten what you wanted
>> either way, it’s the way service works and always has been.
I know that you, “Mr. Someone who Knows”, are an extremely busy guy, but maybe you should have listened to the recording before making your post. If you had listened to the recording you would have heard Vincent mention why he was canceling his account. If you missed it just wait a few seconds because he mentions it again. Go ahead; listen again and you’ll hear that he has a high speed internet connection and no longer uses his AOL account.
Just let this be a lesson in keeping your mouth shut before knowing the details because you’ll generally just make a jackass out of yourself.
June 22nd, 2006 at 1:01 pm
Went through the same deal two years ago after my wife fell for the “free” trial. I knew enough not to ever sign up with them, but there you go…
Anyway, after a couple weeks of not really even using the account, I called up to cancel and got the same runaround everyone else is talking about.
The BS that AOL is spouting about this being an aberration is hogwash. This is a long-established company policy designed specifically to make it so hard to cancel that at least some people will give up and keep the account. I wonder what percentage of people giving up was used in the cost/benefit analysis to justify this strategy.
Vincent, keep up singing about this. You deserve your “15 minutes” for having the presence of mind to record your call to AOL. Something tells me more people will do this in the future.
June 22nd, 2006 at 1:14 pm
What’s left to be said? Good grief… I leave my computer for a minute to grab a sandwich and all hell breaks loose! Vinnie, I’m glad you left AOL because, as has been generally agreed, they do indeed suck. “John”, I have it on good authority that the Texas prison system will hire any warm, breathing body - check it out for new employment. (I think annoyance of clientele is a plus there, by the way.)
Peace, love and 15 minutes of whatever…
not1jot
June 22nd, 2006 at 1:44 pm
Before You Are Gone
Issues: Cancelling your (Insert website/company name here) account…
Yeah, it’s pretty much a meme across the Internet and the mainstream news outlets about the AOL subscriber who tried to cancel an account and only met with frustration. It was difficult enough for him being the owner of the account. How much mo…
June 22nd, 2006 at 2:02 pm
I can’t believe more x-AOL employees aren’t posting here. I worked for these sleazeballs for a couple of months before quitting in utter disgust of the business practices of this horrible company. If someone calls in to cancel a membership of a deceased family member they train you to suggest keeping the account open as a memorial. Unbelievable. But their real scam is keeping people on the phones that are argumentative, and will “Game” the system i.e. when all else fails tell someone you cancelled their account but don’t. This keeps their “Saves Rate” up which increases their bonuses and ensures continued employment. AOL will tolerate almost any transgression from these reps when dealing with members…some things that were said to members you wouldn’t believe. And when these unscrupulous reps would finally go to far they would indeed be fired. But keep in mind up to that point they were keeping all those accounts open, all those bank charges re-occuring for all those months…and AOL rarely refunds those bogus charges. So with a membership base in the tens of millions…well do the math. AOL is laughing so hard they wet their pants! So yeah “wink wink, we took care of that John character” yeah bulls_ _ t! He was doing exactly what he was vigorously trained, coached and counciled to do.
June 22nd, 2006 at 2:42 pm
How about a class action suit? They did it to Sears!
June 22nd, 2006 at 2:51 pm
I just wanted to say kudos to you for busting AOL on this and curses on AOL for trying to pretend this isn’t standard policy.
I tried to quit AOL several times and the first 3 or 4 I experienced the same script, except my repeated refusals led to an offer for free months of service with unlimited or large amounts of hours.
The level of reward diminished each time, but I got a free ride for a year.
When I finally could afford DSL, cancelling for real was a nightmare. After a few scripted questions I requested to a supervisor, who then started in on the script until I said something along the lines of “I know you’re following orders, and excuse my French but if this bullshit doesn’t stop I’m calling consumer fraud and suing you.”
I suspect there might also be an “angry customer” override, if one is polite with your fury. He apologized and stopped with the script, but it still took several long pauses to get a confirmation. My guess - and it’s only a guess - is the script is built into their account management program and they can’t get to the actual functions without paging through it.
This is an annoying an toxic practice and AOL is just about the worst practioner of it. It’s not only unfair to the customers - the service reps are obviously required to stick to the script no matter what and I can’t imagine what sort of abuse they tolerate. Plus AOL is clearly outsourcing many calls to India, so we have people working for 2nd rate wages getting top rate abuse from irate customers.
June 22nd, 2006 at 3:03 pm
I just saw the clip of the Today show. Last year, I tried to cancel my account and it took over 6 months to get it done. At the end, I calculated that I paid over $80 in service that I didn’t want. AOL kept promising my money back only if I kept my account. To make a long story short, at the end I was screaming at them to cancel the account and keep the $80. It was such a nightmare to get them to just do it.
I am sure that this guy Nicholas cannot be serious about respect for the customer. Trust me…take your call and the minutes you spent times six or seven times in 6 months and that is what I experienced. My ordeal was last summer so it seems to me that this is a very common practice at AOL. I already gave up on getting my moeny back but at least it is a pleasure to know that now someone actually recorded what they do.
As for the guy they fired…shame on AOL. I am sure he was doing what he was instructed to do. I talked to several of them and they all did the same thing.
Good job!
June 22nd, 2006 at 3:16 pm
I have to agree with the other million posts on this, and i hope you are sharing their stories too when you go on the networks. I have only had an AOL account twice in my life - once at the very early stages when i think i was version 2.0 and once recently by accident (long story). On both cases, it was a huge pain to cancel the account. First of all, they told me they can’t take online cancellations because of privacy issues related to the account and credit card fraud. But, they certainly have no problem signing you up online using a secure server and your credit card! They make you call so they can have one of their retention folks try to keep you.
I think they are encouraged to behave the way John did because in both cases, i experienced basically the same thing. In fact, i don’t think it was until i started yelling at them that they finally agreed to process the cancellation.
While the letter was nice, it was for pure publicity and damage control. I know. I work in Public Relations and Marketing. The guy said something about reading this paragraph to you, right? They have a script and i guarantee you he followed it!! Now, he may have gotten a little too far from what they want, but i am sure that is because they get a bonus if they keep the person from cancelling.
And don’t worry about John. I am sure he’ll find a nice sales job somewhere else. In fact, i think that might be him calling me now….
June 22nd, 2006 at 3:21 pm
I had the same EXACT experience back in 1999. My father had signed up with AOL (cuz it had 3 months for free) so he could download Juno. He was in a terrible motorcycle accident and was in a coma. I knew that the account needed to be canceled, so I took my dad’s credit card #, SSN, and when I called, I gave them my dad’s name (O.K., lock me up for impersonation). What transpired after I dialed was EXACTLY like what happened here. The tone the guy took with me, everything was the same. During the conversation, I was called a bad parent because I didn’t want them to protect my kids from porn on the internet. I finally told the guy that I’m the customer and that he WILL comply with my wishes. The AOL rep promptly hung up on me! He got pissy with me and when I wouldn’t relent, he hung up on me. Fortunately, when the next month came around, there were no charges to my dad’s credit card. AOL customer service leaves a lot to be desired.
PS: My dad us up and walking around today.
June 22nd, 2006 at 4:04 pm