More Appearance News

Okay everyone.

Tonight, between 9:20 pm and 9:40pm, I’ll be on Scarborough Country with Michael Smerconish. That’s right, another NBC property wants to sit down and talk with the Patron Saint of Customer Dissatisfaction.

Anyway, tune in. There will be a quiz later!

Also, I just did Paul Harris’ show in Missouri on KMOX. Audio should be up on his site shortly, so be on the lookout for it!

[tags]aol, cancellation, vincent ferrari, michael smerconish[/tags]

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  • http://www.seekingmysanity.com Bridget

    Is tonight on NBC or an affiliate? Wanna make sure I have the right channel on DirectTV.

  • Don

    Thank God someone did this. They’ve been this way for 10 years and only gotten worse. Now take on Vonage, Comcast, and DirectTV

  • Dennis

    Thank you Vincent for an entertaining afternoon. After seeing you on MSNBC, I had to find the entire conversation between you and AOL. I cannot believe the way some companies “try” to help there customers. I know of 2 other people that have had similar experences. I`m passing this on to as many people as I can! Screw AOL!!!

    Dennis

  • http://mccain.servehttp.com Scott McCain

    Interesting that this is comming from AOL. I recently had a run in with AOL, although for a different service, and my experience was almost identical. You were much calmer in the recorded conversation than I was. I just can’t understand a company that refuses to cancel a voluntary service. My experience stemmed from signing up with XDrive – a web based storage service. They touted a 14 day free trial on their website. I gave it a try and decided to cancel – no cancel page on website. After 10 emails with various threatening verbiage I finnaly recieved a reply to call a toll-free number to cancel my service. I called the number and it was answered by an AOL rep – the rest pretty much parellels your experience. This is almost criminal especially considering they apply the same gustapo tactics for other services they manange.

  • Michael

    Saw the NBC story on you; the part about them asking for your father reminded me of my own experience with AOL. My mom had somehow signed up and then “canceled,” only to realize they kept charging the card for over a year after (she’s not the most observant). When she called to recancel they told her that she couldn’t because “Robert” (my dad) was the account holder, even though “Margie” was the owner of the credit card. Imagine that: “Margie” can’t cancel a service that she’s paying for.

    So Mom, afraid to tell Dad she’d not noticed the charges for over a year, called me and asked me to pretend to be “Robert” to cancel. As “Robert,” I was asked if they could speak to “Margie” since she was the cardholder. Even after he admitted the account notes indicated “Margie” had already called, he said he needed both of us simultaneously, whereupon I informed him that I refused to accept that AOL required security normally reserved only for devices that launch nuclear missiles.

    My assigned mission was just to cancel, but I became so frustrated after five minutes of the same stuff you went through that I declared war and kept asking for supervisors. Eventually I got back 6 months of chargebacks (not perfect, but apparently as far back as you can “refund” on VISA).

    I wish I’d recorded mine, though hearing your version is about as rewarding for me.

  • mae

    AOL recently sent me a bill for $99 when i called them they tried to convince me that i use aol…even tho i dont. They argued with me telling me how many hours i use it each month (which is not true) the lady i spoke with was rude and ended the conversation with….you will pay the bill or we will persue you, since then they have turned me into collections!!!! As of yesterday 6-20-06 they sent my daughter a bill for $25. she is 17 and dont have acess to a credit card to even sign up for AOL….also my brother and aunt has received bogus bills from AOL, i hope this will all be resolved soon…. thanks for speaking up for all of us getting screwed by aol!!!!

  • monica

    vincent, i want to thank you for doing this service to the web world who have shared your experience. it took me two calls and about two hours to finally cancel my account. the first time it appeared i was close to cancelling it, and they were “going through the motions” and then i was suspciously “dropped” or hung up on. i had to call back and go through it all over again.

    what i heard on your call sounded almost identically to what i had to do. same questions, same comments, same argumentative approach. these guys are given a script and training that teaches them to behave this way. it seems like a lot of BS that they fired the guy who was on your call, when in fact he’s just a scapegoat for so many others. i think the guy who was fired should sue, personally for being treated differently than the manner in which so many others respond and handle cancellations in the same way.

    take care, and regards… monica

  • Scuba Steve

    I totally feel your frustration and pain!!! I tried to cancel AOL several times last year, and they pulled the same stunt on me. I signed up for the free trial period, and when the trial period ended, they did everything in their power to stop me from cancelling. I didn’t fare too badly though, because they kept extending my free trial for almost a year. I would call to cancel, and they would extend the trial period for another three months. I finally got wise and ordered high speed cable, because dial up was just too slow. Again, I tried to cancel the account (after waiting on hold for 15 minutes for a real person) and was verbally rebuffed and pressured again to keep it. I finally had to cancel the credit card associated with the account, but they billed me (by mail) anyway for three months, which I’ll never pay for since I never used it!!!!!!

  • stingwray

    I wonder if the blogger notified the csr that he was taping the call? I wonder if some laws were broken if not on this mini-crusade. AOL does have bad customer service but that wouldn’t excuse recording laws being violated.

  • DoberLady

    Anyone know how to file suit against Earthlink in small claims? I made several calls to them, one call was over an hour long and none under half an hour, got hung up on, was told that only one person in the whole place could cancel an account and got the run-around in general. Finally, I managed to get a cancelation confirmation number. For reasons that I really don’t care to get in to here, I was just able to reconcile my bank statement this weekend and discovered that they are STILL billing my account…9 months after it was canceled. Is there a penalty involved? Do I call the local theft…fraud…
    whatever authorities? The bank is totally no help at all.

  • http://fatbaldmarriedguy.blogspot.com TheFatBaldMarriedGuy

    Tally ho on a nice consumerist revenge story. I HATE AOL. One angle I’d like to have seen you take on national TV is that the rep is actually a big victim here. It’s not like this guy himself chose to put up road blocks to you cancelling your account. I promise you that AOL threatens these guys and I’m positive that they are held accountable for every account they allow to cancel. This guy no doubt felt a lot of pressure to hand on to that account. But, because you brought embarassment to AOL, and rightly so, CEO’s don’t pay the price. In the corporate world, shit trickles down and the CSR gets it.

    Once again, nice job. AOL deserves it. Jon didn’t.

  • Michelle G.

    Thank God for this news story. AOL are crooks! Below is my story. Sit back and read.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Prior to August 20th, 2002, I was using AOL’s unlimited dial-up service. They would automatically deduct $23.90 from my checking account for this service. On August 20th, 2002, I called America Online regarding my DSL service. I had just received my kit, and I had received an email instructing me to call AOL prior to installing the kit, to make sure my telephone line is provisioned. I called AOL after 7pm that evening. During that conversation, I was given misinformation regarding my plan with AOL. While I was on the phone with the rep, I inquired about what my monthly bill would be. The male Customer Service Representative in India, told me it would be $53.95 per month. I made a statement to suggest that I should have gotten Verizon’s DSL service since it was $3.00 cheaper than AOL. I continued to ask him exactly what am I paying for. He told me that I was paying $23.90for unlimited dial-up plus $30.00 for AOL’s DSL service. I asked him why would I need to have the unlimited dial up plan if I will no longer be dialing a phone number to access the Internet. He told me that we have to have AOL’s dial up service in order to have their DSL, but they do have cheaper plans. He told me about the $4.95/mth for 2 hours of dial up time amonth, plus $2.95 each additional hour; and $9.95/mth for 5 hours dial uptime a month, plus $2.95 each additional hour. I told him that I would take the $9.95 plan since I barely use AOL when I am not at home, and, since I have the DSL now I won’t be dialing in to access the internet while I am at home. He also confirmed that if I connect while I am at work through the LAN connection I would not be charged for dial up because it is a LAN connection and I will not be dialing a phone number. He also confirmed that if I check my emails using http://www.aol.com, I would not be charged either. He told me to change the plan online myself, by typing in the word “billing” in the AOL Keyword. Given that information, I changed from the unlimited dial up service to the $9.95 plan. On October 10th, 2002, AOL charged me $251.10. I called AOL on October 11th, 2002, to find out exactly why they charged me such a great amount of money. The CSR explained that I was online for 86 hours past my limit. I asked her what limit because I never used my dial up plan to access the Internet, ever since I installed my DSL kit. She said that the billing plans have nothing to do with dialing up time, and that it is “online” time. I explained to her that I was not told that back inAugust. They said that it is a valid charge and they will not refund my money. At that time, I asked to speak to a supervisor. The CSR absolutely refused to put one on the phone. I was persistent in asking over and over again to speak to a supervisor, and then she lied and said that she was a supervisor. I explained to her that I am in the customer service business and whenever someone calls the Helpdesk, they do not automatically get my supervisor. However, if someone calls to speak to my supervisor, I either transfer the call or I call my supervisor to the phone. I went on to tell her that she is not a supervisor, that she is just a CSR and to put her supervisor on the phone. After about 5 minutes of arguing back and forth, she finally put Mike Chavez on the phone. He said that he is a supervisor. I explained to him what happened. He said that it is not in AOL’s policy to refund money, but they usually credit customers’ accounts. I told him that I do not want credit, that I would like my money refunded to my checking account. He said that he would have his supervisor look into it. He told me to call back in 3 hours so that she can have time to review my account. I called back in 3 hours and had the most unethical experience ever. I called AOL’s billing line and reached a Spanish-speaking department. I immediately asked to speak to a supervisor. The female CSR refused to put one on the phone. I started to demand to speak to one. Being that I didn’t get very far with her, I hung up the phone and immediately called back. I believe I reached the same department, but a different CSR, a male. Again, I asked to speak to a supervisor. He would not put one on the phone. He said that the only supervisor on the floor is busy in a meeting. I got angry because it seems like whenever you ask to speak to a supervisor at AOL, the CSR immediately says that they are busy or in a meeting. I threatened to call the Better Business Bureau, and I threatened to call the Fox5 Problem Solvers about this. He said, and I quote, “Do what you must, but I am not putting a supervisor on the phone!” I asked him for his name. He said his name is ‘Daniel’. I asked him for his last name and understandably, he wouldn’t give it to me. He gave me his employee number: ’5085′. Eventually, he hung up on me. I called back again and reached a different department. Right away I told the male CSR on the phone that I do not want his help, that I want to speak to a supervisor. Upon hearing that, he put one on thephone. She told me that her name was Allison Eby. I explained to her what happened and that I was given misinformation. I explained to her that if Iknew that I had 5 hours of “online” time before I would be charged for extra hours, then I wouldn’t be online for an additional 86 hours at $2.95 an hour. She told me that the charge is valid and the only option that she can offer me is to credit my AOL account for $23.90 per month, for the next 9¬Ωmonths. ($227.20 which is minus $23.90 for the month of September) For the time being, I agreed to it because I do not want to lose my money. I also do not want to be bound to AOL’s service for the next 9¬Ω months just to get my money back. Throughout this whole ordeal, the fact that I changed my billing plan myself has been thrown back in my face, even though the CSR in August told me to. I keep hearing that there is no documentation in my notes that show that a CSR told me to do so. I asked if a tape can be pulled from that day, and the CSR’s at AOL tell me “No”. On November 8th, 2002, I called AOL to cancel my DSL service so that I would not have to pay them another red cent until this whole mess is straightened out. The CSR that took care of that cancellation call said her name was Marie. On November 10th, 2002, AOL deducted from my checking account the following:$53.09-AOL Broadband; $4.36-AOL Taxes and Fees for a total of $57.45. On November 19th, 2002, I spoke to Eddy in the cancellation department inTucson, AZ between the hours of 11am and 1pm. I immediately told Eddy that I wanted to speak to a supervisor. Still, he somehow worked his way out of it and I ended up telling him what happened. He put me on hold and looked into my account. When he came back on the phone, he offered to credit my account for 2 months! (Keep in mind that I already have 9¬Ω months of credit already,and should not have been charged the $57.45 in the first place! That would total 11¬Ω months of AOL binding me to their service.) I screamed at Eddy and told him that I do not want credit, that I want my money back in my checking account otherwise I am taking this to the law! He put me on hold. He came back on the phone and told me that they are going to refund me the $57.45 tomy checking account. He explained to me why I was charged. He said it was due to the fact that I cancelled the DSL service 1 day after my billing date. He added that the CSR that took care of that call failed to tell me that. I explained to him the reason why I cancelled the DSL in the firstplace – which was due to another CSR giving me misinformation. He looked into my account, and he agreed that I was treated unfairly. He also told me that EVERY call at AOL is recorded and a tape from that conversation can be pulled if needed. He said that he would escalate this issue to his supervisor, Rob. Eddy gave me his email address along with his supervisor’s email address so that I can follow up. Eddy also sent me an email explaining what was going to happen with my refund of $57.45 as well as the first issue of misinformation about the DSL service. Eddy was very helpful on the phone, and even though I screamed at him at the top of my lungs, he never got rude with me. I apologized for yelling at him, and asked him to understand why I’m so angry. On December 3rd, 2002 between the hours of 9pm and 10:00pm, I spoke to a CSR named Chris. I asked to speak to a supervisor. Chris did not want to put one on the phone because he said that his supervisor was in a meeting. I had to tell Chris my story. He told me what I keep hearing, that I changed the billing plan, and I agreed to the 9¬Ω months of credit towards my AOL service, etc. I explained to him why I agreed, and I asked him to pull the tape. He told me that not every call is recorded, and maybe every 3 calls made to AOL are recorded. I told him that maybe my call was the 3rd one. I also asked to speak to a supervisor. I told him that I would wait on the phone until the supervisor is finished. I was on hold for 12 minutes before Kara, the supervisor, came to the phone. Kara kept it short with me. Again, she told me that I changed my billing plan myself. She told me that I agreed to the credit towards my AOL service. She questioned why I called AOL on August 20th, 2002. She doubted the conversation that I had with the CSR on that day because she said that there is no record of the call in my records.I explained to Kara that I received an email that said to call AOL before installing the DSL kit to make sure my line is provisioned. I explained to her that I am a computer tech and I had no reason to call AOL to assist me with the installation of the DSL Kit. She laughed at me in a condescending way, and told me that she has AOL DSL and she never received an email stating that. She also added that none of her reps would have told me to change my billing plan because AOL requires any DSL user to have the unlimited plan. I asked her to pull the tape from that date. She told me that I would have to send that request to the following address: AOL CorpOffice, America Online, PO Box 10810, Herndon, VA 20170. Soon afterwards,she hung up the phone. At this point, I was determined to try and find out the phone number to this location. I called information. They did not have a listing for AmericaOnline in Herndon, VA. They had a listing in Dulles, VA along with a whole list of phone numbers, some of which just ring to eternity, meaning no voicemail and no one answers. The list of numbers is: 703-391-7273 703-450-0729 571-434-0863 571-434-8618 703-265-1000 – Corp. Office? 571-434-9783 703-450-4480 703-404-2333 – Fax 571-434-8395 – AOL by phone 703-948-6378 703-948-6000 I called information again and asked if they have a listing for AOL inDulles, and they gave me the following address: AOL Corp Office, 22000 AOLWay, Dulles, VA 20166. Why did I have to get that address from information? Why wasn’t I given that address by AOL’s supervisor? I feel as though I have been cheated, and given the run-around. AOL has proven to be almost impossible to grant proper customer service to their paying customers. I do not believe that myself nor anyone else should have to experience what I’ve experienced while trying to resolve an issue, that is clearly not my fault. I believe that since I was given misinformation about my AOL account, I should not be liable for the $251.10 charge made to my account. 86 hours past a limit that I was not aware of clearly states that I was misled by AOL at my expense. I wonder how many other people have experienced this? I do not want to be credited towards my AOL account. I still have yet to be refunded the $227.00 towards my checking account.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Here it is in June 2006 and still nothing.

  • meg

    I went throught the same thing two months ago when I canceled my AOL account. I told the rep I wanted to cancel my account at least 20 times, and it took 40 minutes. Don’t feel guilty about getting that guy fired. You probably did him a favor. AOL is trying to bully customers into keeping their overpriced service.

  • http://chapel-perilous.net/caiterwauling/ Cait

    Fortunately, I never had anything to do with AOL. I accidentally saw the news segment today. I was blown away when the name “Vince Ferrari” popped up on the screen. You looked great Vince, and came across like the intelligent, even-tempered guy you are. I loved you conversation with AOL. You were so contained. Even the newscaster commented on it. Way to go.

  • Matt Gudgel

    After closing my account THREE TIMES, and still contiinuing to get bills for usage, I had to cancel my bank account so they would stop taking the payment out of my account. I was promised several times that the reimbursement for services not rendered was “in the mail.” Ya, right!
    I went so far as to disconnect my land line and switch to cellular only to try to get out of the grasp of these CRIMINALS. I view it as no less than pure unadulterated THEFT BY DECEPTION. “Yes your account is closed sir.” Then my statement from the bank came, AOL still charging monthly! I do not even have web @ home anymore because of this for fear that other companies may want to hitch a ride on this growing and continuing GRAVY TTRAIN of theft from the masses. What reprisals do they have? Is there anyone standing up for us?

  • Emma

    AOL did the same stuff with me when I tried to cancel. But then I finally told them the “truth” – I was leaving the country for one year for missions work in Africa and wouldn’t have access to running water, let alone a computer or a telephone. I assured them I would love to subscribe again when I returned; I was so very “happy” with AOL. NOT! I had just heard enough horror stories to know that when they started down that road of no return, that I should just lie, lie, lie. I did, and it worked like a charm.

  • Eric

    I work for AOL, I am very proud of the company I work for, I can not speak for all of the 11,000 employees I work with, but that call really upset me, we are held to a higher quality than that. I can only promise our customers mean a lot to us. We want people to know that this company will not stand for this what so ever.

  • http://marortega38yahoo.com marlene ortega

    you did a great job, I have been beating my head against the wall with these people for 7 mos. signed up on a 90 day free trial, they started charging my account from the first month, I keep calling to cancel, they
    say they see I called and say they don’t know what happened, but put me through there B.S. game. say thay will take care of it. and always at the
    end supposedly to get it to keep charging my card, they have to transfer me to a billing dept. And everytime, it drops!!!! Imagine that!!! If you find a solution, or if there is a class action lawsuit. Please sign me up!!!!
    Thanks, and great job!!!!!!!!!!!1 Marlene

  • Dave

    I cancelled an AOL account today. I just saw the story tonight. They were quick and almost apologetic. They must be getting the word to their employees. FINALLY!

  • http://www.campharrigan.com Camp Harrigan

    Vince,

    Great job on Scarbough. I’m wondering what kind of pressure does AOL put on those retention clerks to persuade people to stay. At least they apologized for the time being. I’m glad I dropped them many years ago when they were friendlier.

    Be good!

    Camp

  • Skip

    I had the same thing with Netscape’s internet service. The rep just wouldn’t give up and transferred me twice and of course they made me go the song and dance each time. It took over an hour just to cancel my account. By the way, any other kind of account maintenance can be done online with them. A little irony that netscape’s news service is all over this, eh?

  • J

    Vincent – Thanks! I can totally relate! I had this problem with AOL 3 years ago. They made it virtually imposible to cancel. I had to talk to a manager of the customer service rep to finally get cancelled. Thanks for sharing your story! The sad thing the rest of my experience with AOL was a good one, so this is story will present a negative image for a good company.

  • RJ

    I just had this same problem (& others) with Earthlink. First, they told me my credit card wouldn’t be billed until the DSL service was installed & working. Unbeknownst to me, they billed me, not $12.95 but about $140 before I even received the modem & software. Then the DSL service didn’t work and tech support was a nightmare. Finally, after HOURS on the phone, I was told that some MASTER TECHNICIAN had decided that my phone lines would never carry DSL. (This is what the phone company had told me, but Earthlink disagreed and had lots of promises.)

    When I called back to officially cancel, I got some fellow who wanted to try to again try to “fix” my DSL service. I had a fever at the time and said I wasn’t about to hook all the gizmos up again, plus it wouldn’t work no matter what if my phone lines aren’t set up for it. I had to argue with him for almost an hour. Then I demanded to be put through to Cancellations which put me on hold another half hour. And then I had to argue with the idiot who handled that dept. He kept telling me that my DSL service according to his records “worked perfectly.”
    I finally got a cancellation number out of him, but then he informed me I would be liable for some $20 shipping fee on the modem. (Two other reps who signed me up swore there’d be no charges whatsoever if the DSL didn’t work.)
    I promptly called the credit card company and filed a protest on any charges. In retrospect, I see that Earthlink is based in Texas (?) and I have had bad experiences with based there & some other states. I’ll probably have to file a complaint with California Consumer Affairs about Earthlink and its fraudulent practices. It’s also maddening to have to try to deal with all these outsourced people in India who just make things up as they go.

    What’s really stupid is that I oversee a computer lab and deal with lots of students. I can badmouth Earthlink to about 100 people every week in person. What’s the problem with these companies? The web and media nowadays get the word out fast, so all the glorious ads these joker companies put out is lots of money wasted.

  • Gerard

    Vincent,

    I just saw your segment on YouTube, cool stuff man. It’s just aggravating having to deal with reps like that. I’m in retail sales and I know the line that shouldn’t be crossed. It’s just messed up that these reps work like that, pushing and pushing just trying to make the sale – no care for the other persons feelings.

  • http://paulharris? Curt

    Vincent,

    Ralph Nader would be proud of you! Great job in anticipating that you should tape your call to cancel AOL in advance. I wish I had the forsight to do the same thing about 2 years ago when I had to endure the same battle with their customer service department. I have to admit that I did not keep my cool and they kep t hanging up on me so it took about 5 calls to finally get the account canceled.

    I think your simple recording is going to be a HUGE topic on the agenda of AOL’s next Excecutive Board Meeting.

    THANK YOU

  • larry French

    Dear Vincent,

    If you think that talking to John (no last name or CSR number) at AOL caused your account to be canceled you had better review your credit card very closely next month.

    In reality, the only sure way to cancel an AOL account is to cancel your credit card.

    John Doe will be promoted . . . to teach other CSR’s and AOL will continue their dishonest Mode of Operation . . . business as usual!

  • http://www.seekingmysanity.com Bridget

    Hey Vinnie – we all sat down as a family last night and watched your interview! You looked great and were just too awsome! I would have been a nervous wreck. Anyway, you are doing great as the Patron Saint. Get some rest and give the wife a hug for me!

  • http://none GR8-1

    Speaking of taking on Vonage… I’m trying to figure out how to get Vonage’s attention like Vinnie did AOL because that monster needs to be stopped!

    I had their service for 6 months, it didn’t work for the last 3 months of that period and not only did they NOT give me a refund for 2 of those months, they charged me a cancellation fee because according to them, I broke my contract…

    VONAGE BROKE THE CONTRACT BY NOT GIVING ME THE SERVICE I PAID FOR!!!!

    After at least 20 calls…
    Countless hours on my cell phone before 9pm trying to get it fixed…
    3 months without phone service (and no 911!)
    Having to hold for at least a half hour before each call…
    Having to hold another half hour after finally being connected to a person…
    Spending a half hour trying to convince that person that I have rebooted the modem already…
    Spending $80 on a new modem because the warranty on the one they give you only last 30 days…
    The time and gas it took to return the new $80 modem when that didn’t fix it…
    The countless hours on my new Lingo phone trying to convince Vonage to give me back the money they stole from us because we didn’t have service…
    The 8 times they’ve argued and yelled and hung up on us when we tried to tell them that they broke the contract and we deserve a refund…
    And the last time when I attempted to call their corporate offices in New Jersey, just to find out that all of their numbers are in Canada, and there doesn’t appear to be a number in the United States, to finally be routed back to their Helpdesk to be told that Management declined the refund request because we broke the contract.

    ARGGGHHH!!!!

    DO NOT RISK YOUR LIFE AND THOSE OF YOUR KIDS JACKING WITH VONAGE!

    Vinnie, forget blogging…. You’ve got a new business to pursue:
    Leading the revolution against Money Grubbing Customer Service Practices!

    Why earn my money when they can just steal it?

  • Lori

    This has been going on for YEARS and is documented by a Press Release by the Office of New York State Attory General, Eliot Spitzer….

    http://www.oag.state.ny.us/press/2005/aug/aug24a_05.html

  • AOL: Den of thieves

    Stingwray:

    No laws were violated. In fact, AOL routinely tells customers that their calls “may be recorded for Quality Assurance”.

    So, it’s OK for AOL to record the call but not the customer?

    As long as one party to the call knows it’s being recorded, it’s completely legal. And, obviously in the case of the crooks at AOL, necessary.

  • AOL: Den of thieves

    Speaking of Earthlink: I wouldn’t sign up with them either. They seem to engage in some pretty shady cancellation practices, too. Not only that, but the company is owned by Scientologists. No thanks.

  • Dan

    Three words: Class Action Lawsuit. Think about it. It sounds like a ton of people have been defrauded. I’m not saying get greedy, I’m saying get together and get even. Good luck with all this.

  • RJ

    AOL: Den of thieves Says

    Actually, for business purposes, it’s legal for AOL to record the phone call – however, per the FCC, Vinnie was also legally required to advise AOL he was recording the call.

    State laws tend to rule here however, so depending on where Vinnie was, he may have engaged in criminal activity when he recorded it. For example, California has a all party consent – meaning that he was required by law to state that he was recording the call to all parties involved (this includes the rep) if such is the case – prior to the conversation.

    While it would be bad press for AOL to sue Vinnie for it, the rep would be perfectly within his legal rights to sue him for loss of job, possible defamation of character, and the like.

    Speaking as somebody who also takes calls, while I do agree that the CSR who took the call didn’t do the right think, Vinnie goaded him and was a bit rude himself. Most of the customers I deal with are friendly enough, and are reasonable most of the time. Most of them are respectful to listen. What Vinnie did was disrespectul and for the following reasons, should NOT be lauded as some kind of hero:

    1) He may have engaged in illegal activity by recording the call
    2) He lied to the rep about why he wanted to cancel.
    3) He used company property at the place where he works to record the call (misappropriation of company property?) This could also cause his company to fall under legal action since their equipment was being used.

    Essentially, Vinnie was equally unprofessional and rude, and I wouldn’t want him as my employee.

  • AOL: Den of thieves

    “While it would be bad press for AOL to sue Vinnie for it, the rep would be perfectly within his legal rights to sue him for loss of job, possible defamation of character, and the like.”

    Sorry — that wouldn’t fly. AOL fired him. If he goes after Vinnie, no jury in the world would find for the Plaintiff. Not to mention Vinnie could countersue.

    AOL’s practice of “recording this call for Quality Assurance purposes” pretty much opens the door both ways.

  • AOL: Den of thieves

    “2) He lied to the rep about why he wanted to cancel.”

    RJ, explain to me how the customer — or any citizen in the free world, for that matter — is legally bound to give a Customer Rep a “good enough” reason for canceling a service he’s paying for.

    And how does one go about proving that said customer’s answer wasn’t good enough to satisfy the Customer Rep?

    I’ve got a better one: AOL stacks the deck against the customer, making their legal “covenant” lopsided in AOL’s favor — That’s not a legally enforceable contract, either.

    Since when does a customer have to do a song and dance, begging for the release of obligation — bending to the whim of a Customer Service rep who is paid bonuses to say “No” to the customer? Does that sound like an equal, legal relationship to you?

    Sound like good faith to you?

  • Bill K.

    Vincent DOES NOT owe anyone any explanation for his cancellation, whatsoever. He called to cancel the account. He did not call to chat. He called to cancel the account.

  • john M

    Vince,
    I experienced this treatment when I tried to cancel my account. As bad as yours was, believe it or not mine was worse, I only wish I had recorded it. The rep I spoke to said much of the same things John said but my responses toward the end of the 45 minute conversation went something like this. “Cancel my f…… account now or transfer me to a f…… supervisor now!!! I don’t want to hear how you can f…… help me anymore, I simply want my account cancelled, do you under stand what the f… I’m saying or are you f…… deaf!!!? It was absolutely the worst customer service interaction I had ever experienced. Like you, I too work in the Telecommunications industry and we do everything we can to avoid churn, to a point. Thank You for exposing AOL’s practices!

  • RJ

    To AOL: Den of thieves:

    ““While it would be bad press for AOL to sue Vinnie for it, the rep would be perfectly within his legal rights to sue him for loss of job, possible defamation of character, and the like.”

    Sorry — that wouldn’t fly. AOL fired him. If he goes after Vinnie, no jury in the world would find for the Plaintiff. Not to mention Vinnie could countersue.

    AOL’s practice of “recording this call for Quality Assurance purposes” pretty much opens the door both ways.”

    The law doesn’t work like that. There are clear guidelines, and if he broke the law, he broke the law. Period. As a result, depending the what the law favors, it’s entirely possible to see Vince getting served a lawsuit for illegally recording the call by the rep who was fired. In the end, even if Vince decided to countersue, it should be understood that Vince is the one going on all the radio stations and TV and the like. That could wind up being more ammunition against him than for him if that’s the case.

    Unfortnately for your general summation, jurors are required to make a judgement based on whether or not the law was broken, regardless of their personal feelings on the matter. Whether or not they agree with what Vince did, objectively, if he broke the law, they would have to find for the plantiff – now as to what they agree the plantiff should get if that were the case – that’s a whole other matter.

    “RJ, explain to me how the customer — or any citizen in the free world, for that matter — is legally bound to give a Customer Rep a “good enough” reason for canceling a service he’s paying for.”

    I never stated he was legally bound to give a “good enough” reason. I said that he LIED about why he wanted to cancel the account. That alone makes me lose respect for the guy.

    Let me point you out to this article:

    http://www.cepro.com/news/editorial/13792.html

    Not this part here “While the AOL rep definitely handled the situation poorly, he was right to ask questions. The cancellation process is a good opportunity for dealers to mine clients for information. Obviously, if they are canceling, the company didn’t serve them well enough. It’s the service rep’s responsibility to try to find out what the company could have done better.”

    Instead Vince decided to be rude to the rep by interrupting him and not get the matter resolved in a respectful manner. However, had Vince himself been more respectful to at least listen for a moment rather than bait the rep, I’m sure that you’ll agree that the call could have ended in an entirely different matter. This isn’t a matter of AOL being unwilling to cancel the account. It’s a matter of the rep taking the call responding negatively to Vinnie’s own rudeness during the call and now it’s being scrutinized. There is a fact being overlooked. If the rep hadn’t been rude to Vinnie there, there would be no story.

    I am in no way condoing the way the the rep handled the call towards the end. He lost his composure and behaved poorly. I do handle some retention calls myself (though it’s not the primary function of my job). The stress is high – not just because a portion of the pay is dependent on keeping paying customers, but because of being berated constantly while trying to do the job. I’ve been working in the customer service industry for more than twelve years. More than ten years of that has been spent on the phone. Burnout happens, and I suspect “Jon” probably needed a vacation.

    Unfortunately, the mindset of “the customer is always right” has grown into this creature that somehow gives the idea that there is no reason to be respectful to the customer service employee – there is often the mindset that the CSR is just a mindless stupid drone who has his head shoved up his ass and is there for the customer to walk all over.

    It happens enough in retail as it is (I’ve worked that side too) and I’ve been crapped on by customers in that respect. It’s significantly worse on the phones. In the world of retail, there is typically face-to-face interaction. People have that human element in front of them and it seems to create a filter – where somebody who is upset will at least be willing to deal with the person in front of them (or at least keep in mind that they are talking to another human being.)

    When working on the phones, I’ve heard people say things and behave in ways that they would NEVER do if they were face to face. Why? Because there is that lack of human contact. The connection is gone. They don’t have a fear of repercussion or feel a need to have regard for the other person’s feelings. That said, when it comes to the customer service industry, phone representatives have it the hardest. It’s probably the most stressful of all jobs in the customer service industry. I don’t know how many reading this have worked in a customer service job. Put yourself in the rep’s shoes for a moment. Whether you have done this type of job or not, the best way to get excellent customer service (even if cancelling an AOL account) is to be an excellent human being. This doesn’t mean being a doormat, it means being respectful and courteous in your exchange, inspite of how you may feel.

    The question is, can we objectively look at this phone call and say that Vince was on his best behavior? If that is his best behavior, you certainly don’t want him to be the face leading the cause for better customer service.

  • Teri

    RJ – Since you chose to reference this paragraph, so shall I.

    Not this part here “While the AOL rep definitely handled the situation poorly, he was right to ask questions. The cancellation process is a good opportunity for dealers to mine clients for information. Obviously, if they are canceling, the company didn’t serve them well enough. It’s the service rep’s responsibility to try to find out what the company could have done better.”

    1. while it may be a good opportunity to “mine” clients for information…I, as a client, have no legal, personal or moral obligation to oblige. If you want to take up MY valuable time to figure out how to increase YOUR profits….you had better ask verrrrrry nicely….

    2. JOHN had no intention of cancelling Vincent and then finding out how AOL could have served him better. His priority was “retain” Vincent as a customer. Naming the “Cancellation” Center the “Retention” Center represents the most blatent conflict of interest….it just gives me the creeps….

    3. When dealing with a client who is adamant about cancelling their service, well then you, as a CSR, should just do that and move on to the next call. JOHN chose to berate, degrade, insult and flat out refuse Vincents request.

    4. Whether Vincent was on his best behavior is completely irrelevant. If I pay YOU for a service….it’s YOUR job to be on your best behavior, not mine.

  • Melinda

    I went through the same thing with “The new ATT”. They lied to me, and canceling was like pulling teeth. It took me two weeks to undue the mess. I realize it’s their call centers that they have contracted out. I had an interview with a call center, then I read your problem with AOL and I cancelled my appointment. They can’t pay me enough to be evil. God Bless You

  • http://www.freshosts.co.uk James Ash

    Hi, Your news is today been on UK websites and also i think that the BBC may run it in the United Kingdom. We have the same issues along with a few more with AOL here in the UK a mate of mine had issues with AOL on an upgrade the support staff just kept saying he was in the wrong when after months of issues it was AOL and in the end they gave him 4 months of free service for the issues. May i say well done for a top site!

  • http://www.seekingmysanity.com/ Bridget

    Is tonight on NBC or an affiliate? Wanna make sure I have the right channel on DirectTV.

  • Don

    Thank God someone did this. They’ve been this way for 10 years and only gotten worse. Now take on Vonage, Comcast, and DirectTV

  • Dennis

    Thank you Vincent for an entertaining afternoon. After seeing you on MSNBC, I had to find the entire conversation between you and AOL. I cannot believe the way some companies “try” to help there customers. I know of 2 other people that have had similar experences. I`m passing this on to as many people as I can! Screw AOL!!!

    Dennis

  • http://mccain.servehttp.com/ Scott McCain

    Interesting that this is comming from AOL. I recently had a run in with AOL, although for a different service, and my experience was almost identical. You were much calmer in the recorded conversation than I was. I just can’t understand a company that refuses to cancel a voluntary service. My experience stemmed from signing up with XDrive – a web based storage service. They touted a 14 day free trial on their website. I gave it a try and decided to cancel – no cancel page on website. After 10 emails with various threatening verbiage I finnaly recieved a reply to call a toll-free number to cancel my service. I called the number and it was answered by an AOL rep – the rest pretty much parellels your experience. This is almost criminal especially considering they apply the same gustapo tactics for other services they manange.

  • Michael

    Saw the NBC story on you; the part about them asking for your father reminded me of my own experience with AOL. My mom had somehow signed up and then “canceled,” only to realize they kept charging the card for over a year after (she’s not the most observant). When she called to recancel they told her that she couldn’t because “Robert” (my dad) was the account holder, even though “Margie” was the owner of the credit card. Imagine that: “Margie” can’t cancel a service that she’s paying for.

    So Mom, afraid to tell Dad she’d not noticed the charges for over a year, called me and asked me to pretend to be “Robert” to cancel. As “Robert,” I was asked if they could speak to “Margie” since she was the cardholder. Even after he admitted the account notes indicated “Margie” had already called, he said he needed both of us simultaneously, whereupon I informed him that I refused to accept that AOL required security normally reserved only for devices that launch nuclear missiles.

    My assigned mission was just to cancel, but I became so frustrated after five minutes of the same stuff you went through that I declared war and kept asking for supervisors. Eventually I got back 6 months of chargebacks (not perfect, but apparently as far back as you can “refund” on VISA).

    I wish I’d recorded mine, though hearing your version is about as rewarding for me.

  • mae

    AOL recently sent me a bill for $99 when i called them they tried to convince me that i use aol…even tho i dont. They argued with me telling me how many hours i use it each month (which is not true) the lady i spoke with was rude and ended the conversation with….you will pay the bill or we will persue you, since then they have turned me into collections!!!! As of yesterday 6-20-06 they sent my daughter a bill for $25. she is 17 and dont have acess to a credit card to even sign up for AOL….also my brother and aunt has received bogus bills from AOL, i hope this will all be resolved soon…. thanks for speaking up for all of us getting screwed by aol!!!!

  • monica

    vincent, i want to thank you for doing this service to the web world who have shared your experience. it took me two calls and about two hours to finally cancel my account. the first time it appeared i was close to cancelling it, and they were “going through the motions” and then i was suspciously “dropped” or hung up on. i had to call back and go through it all over again.

    what i heard on your call sounded almost identically to what i had to do. same questions, same comments, same argumentative approach. these guys are given a script and training that teaches them to behave this way. it seems like a lot of BS that they fired the guy who was on your call, when in fact he’s just a scapegoat for so many others. i think the guy who was fired should sue, personally for being treated differently than the manner in which so many others respond and handle cancellations in the same way.

    take care, and regards… monica

  • Scuba Steve

    I totally feel your frustration and pain!!! I tried to cancel AOL several times last year, and they pulled the same stunt on me. I signed up for the free trial period, and when the trial period ended, they did everything in their power to stop me from cancelling. I didn’t fare too badly though, because they kept extending my free trial for almost a year. I would call to cancel, and they would extend the trial period for another three months. I finally got wise and ordered high speed cable, because dial up was just too slow. Again, I tried to cancel the account (after waiting on hold for 15 minutes for a real person) and was verbally rebuffed and pressured again to keep it. I finally had to cancel the credit card associated with the account, but they billed me (by mail) anyway for three months, which I’ll never pay for since I never used it!!!!!!

  • stingwray

    I wonder if the blogger notified the csr that he was taping the call? I wonder if some laws were broken if not on this mini-crusade. AOL does have bad customer service but that wouldn’t excuse recording laws being violated.

  • DoberLady

    Anyone know how to file suit against Earthlink in small claims? I made several calls to them, one call was over an hour long and none under half an hour, got hung up on, was told that only one person in the whole place could cancel an account and got the run-around in general. Finally, I managed to get a cancelation confirmation number. For reasons that I really don’t care to get in to here, I was just able to reconcile my bank statement this weekend and discovered that they are STILL billing my account…9 months after it was canceled. Is there a penalty involved? Do I call the local theft…fraud…
    whatever authorities? The bank is totally no help at all.

  • http://fatbaldmarriedguy.blogspot.com/ TheFatBaldMarriedGuy

    Tally ho on a nice consumerist revenge story. I HATE AOL. One angle I’d like to have seen you take on national TV is that the rep is actually a big victim here. It’s not like this guy himself chose to put up road blocks to you cancelling your account. I promise you that AOL threatens these guys and I’m positive that they are held accountable for every account they allow to cancel. This guy no doubt felt a lot of pressure to hand on to that account. But, because you brought embarassment to AOL, and rightly so, CEO’s don’t pay the price. In the corporate world, shit trickles down and the CSR gets it.

    Once again, nice job. AOL deserves it. Jon didn’t.

  • Michelle G.

    Thank God for this news story. AOL are crooks! Below is my story. Sit back and read.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Prior to August 20th, 2002, I was using AOL’s unlimited dial-up service. They would automatically deduct $23.90 from my checking account for this service. On August 20th, 2002, I called America Online regarding my DSL service. I had just received my kit, and I had received an email instructing me to call AOL prior to installing the kit, to make sure my telephone line is provisioned. I called AOL after 7pm that evening. During that conversation, I was given misinformation regarding my plan with AOL. While I was on the phone with the rep, I inquired about what my monthly bill would be. The male Customer Service Representative in India, told me it would be $53.95 per month. I made a statement to suggest that I should have gotten Verizon’s DSL service since it was $3.00 cheaper than AOL. I continued to ask him exactly what am I paying for. He told me that I was paying $23.90for unlimited dial-up plus $30.00 for AOL’s DSL service. I asked him why would I need to have the unlimited dial up plan if I will no longer be dialing a phone number to access the Internet. He told me that we have to have AOL’s dial up service in order to have their DSL, but they do have cheaper plans. He told me about the $4.95/mth for 2 hours of dial up time amonth, plus $2.95 each additional hour; and $9.95/mth for 5 hours dial uptime a month, plus $2.95 each additional hour. I told him that I would take the $9.95 plan since I barely use AOL when I am not at home, and, since I have the DSL now I won’t be dialing in to access the internet while I am at home. He also confirmed that if I connect while I am at work through the LAN connection I would not be charged for dial up because it is a LAN connection and I will not be dialing a phone number. He also confirmed that if I check my emails using http://www.aol.com, I would not be charged either. He told me to change the plan online myself, by typing in the word “billing” in the AOL Keyword. Given that information, I changed from the unlimited dial up service to the $9.95 plan. On October 10th, 2002, AOL charged me $251.10. I called AOL on October 11th, 2002, to find out exactly why they charged me such a great amount of money. The CSR explained that I was online for 86 hours past my limit. I asked her what limit because I never used my dial up plan to access the Internet, ever since I installed my DSL kit. She said that the billing plans have nothing to do with dialing up time, and that it is “online” time. I explained to her that I was not told that back inAugust. They said that it is a valid charge and they will not refund my money. At that time, I asked to speak to a supervisor. The CSR absolutely refused to put one on the phone. I was persistent in asking over and over again to speak to a supervisor, and then she lied and said that she was a supervisor. I explained to her that I am in the customer service business and whenever someone calls the Helpdesk, they do not automatically get my supervisor. However, if someone calls to speak to my supervisor, I either transfer the call or I call my supervisor to the phone. I went on to tell her that she is not a supervisor, that she is just a CSR and to put her supervisor on the phone. After about 5 minutes of arguing back and forth, she finally put Mike Chavez on the phone. He said that he is a supervisor. I explained to him what happened. He said that it is not in AOL’s policy to refund money, but they usually credit customers’ accounts. I told him that I do not want credit, that I would like my money refunded to my checking account. He said that he would have his supervisor look into it. He told me to call back in 3 hours so that she can have time to review my account. I called back in 3 hours and had the most unethical experience ever. I called AOL’s billing line and reached a Spanish-speaking department. I immediately asked to speak to a supervisor. The female CSR refused to put one on the phone. I started to demand to speak to one. Being that I didn’t get very far with her, I hung up the phone and immediately called back. I believe I reached the same department, but a different CSR, a male. Again, I asked to speak to a supervisor. He would not put one on the phone. He said that the only supervisor on the floor is busy in a meeting. I got angry because it seems like whenever you ask to speak to a supervisor at AOL, the CSR immediately says that they are busy or in a meeting. I threatened to call the Better Business Bureau, and I threatened to call the Fox5 Problem Solvers about this. He said, and I quote, “Do what you must, but I am not putting a supervisor on the phone!” I asked him for his name. He said his name is ‘Daniel’. I asked him for his last name and understandably, he wouldn’t give it to me. He gave me his employee number: ’5085′. Eventually, he hung up on me. I called back again and reached a different department. Right away I told the male CSR on the phone that I do not want his help, that I want to speak to a supervisor. Upon hearing that, he put one on thephone. She told me that her name was Allison Eby. I explained to her what happened and that I was given misinformation. I explained to her that if Iknew that I had 5 hours of “online” time before I would be charged for extra hours, then I wouldn’t be online for an additional 86 hours at $2.95 an hour. She told me that the charge is valid and the only option that she can offer me is to credit my AOL account for $23.90 per month, for the next 9¬Ωmonths. ($227.20 which is minus $23.90 for the month of September) For the time being, I agreed to it because I do not want to lose my money. I also do not want to be bound to AOL’s service for the next 9¬Ω months just to get my money back. Throughout this whole ordeal, the fact that I changed my billing plan myself has been thrown back in my face, even though the CSR in August told me to. I keep hearing that there is no documentation in my notes that show that a CSR told me to do so. I asked if a tape can be pulled from that day, and the CSR’s at AOL tell me “No”. On November 8th, 2002, I called AOL to cancel my DSL service so that I would not have to pay them another red cent until this whole mess is straightened out. The CSR that took care of that cancellation call said her name was Marie. On November 10th, 2002, AOL deducted from my checking account the following:$53.09-AOL Broadband; $4.36-AOL Taxes and Fees for a total of $57.45. On November 19th, 2002, I spoke to Eddy in the cancellation department inTucson, AZ between the hours of 11am and 1pm. I immediately told Eddy that I wanted to speak to a supervisor. Still, he somehow worked his way out of it and I ended up telling him what happened. He put me on hold and looked into my account. When he came back on the phone, he offered to credit my account for 2 months! (Keep in mind that I already have 9¬Ω months of credit already,and should not have been charged the $57.45 in the first place! That would total 11¬Ω months of AOL binding me to their service.) I screamed at Eddy and told him that I do not want credit, that I want my money back in my checking account otherwise I am taking this to the law! He put me on hold. He came back on the phone and told me that they are going to refund me the $57.45 tomy checking account. He explained to me why I was charged. He said it was due to the fact that I cancelled the DSL service 1 day after my billing date. He added that the CSR that took care of that call failed to tell me that. I explained to him the reason why I cancelled the DSL in the firstplace – which was due to another CSR giving me misinformation. He looked into my account, and he agreed that I was treated unfairly. He also told me that EVERY call at AOL is recorded and a tape from that conversation can be pulled if needed. He said that he would escalate this issue to his supervisor, Rob. Eddy gave me his email address along with his supervisor’s email address so that I can follow up. Eddy also sent me an email explaining what was going to happen with my refund of $57.45 as well as the first issue of misinformation about the DSL service. Eddy was very helpful on the phone, and even though I screamed at him at the top of my lungs, he never got rude with me. I apologized for yelling at him, and asked him to understand why I’m so angry. On December 3rd, 2002 between the hours of 9pm and 10:00pm, I spoke to a CSR named Chris. I asked to speak to a supervisor. Chris did not want to put one on the phone because he said that his supervisor was in a meeting. I had to tell Chris my story. He told me what I keep hearing, that I changed the billing plan, and I agreed to the 9¬Ω months of credit towards my AOL service, etc. I explained to him why I agreed, and I asked him to pull the tape. He told me that not every call is recorded, and maybe every 3 calls made to AOL are recorded. I told him that maybe my call was the 3rd one. I also asked to speak to a supervisor. I told him that I would wait on the phone until the supervisor is finished. I was on hold for 12 minutes before Kara, the supervisor, came to the phone. Kara kept it short with me. Again, she told me that I changed my billing plan myself. She told me that I agreed to the credit towards my AOL service. She questioned why I called AOL on August 20th, 2002. She doubted the conversation that I had with the CSR on that day because she said that there is no record of the call in my records.I explained to Kara that I received an email that said to call AOL before installing the DSL kit to make sure my line is provisioned. I explained to her that I am a computer tech and I had no reason to call AOL to assist me with the installation of the DSL Kit. She laughed at me in a condescending way, and told me that she has AOL DSL and she never received an email stating that. She also added that none of her reps would have told me to change my billing plan because AOL requires any DSL user to have the unlimited plan. I asked her to pull the tape from that date. She told me that I would have to send that request to the following address: AOL CorpOffice, America Online, PO Box 10810, Herndon, VA 20170. Soon afterwards,she hung up the phone. At this point, I was determined to try and find out the phone number to this location. I called information. They did not have a listing for AmericaOnline in Herndon, VA. They had a listing in Dulles, VA along with a whole list of phone numbers, some of which just ring to eternity, meaning no voicemail and no one answers. The list of numbers is: 703-391-7273 703-450-0729 571-434-0863 571-434-8618 703-265-1000 – Corp. Office? 571-434-9783 703-450-4480 703-404-2333 – Fax 571-434-8395 – AOL by phone 703-948-6378 703-948-6000 I called information again and asked if they have a listing for AOL inDulles, and they gave me the following address: AOL Corp Office, 22000 AOLWay, Dulles, VA 20166. Why did I have to get that address from information? Why wasn’t I given that address by AOL’s supervisor? I feel as though I have been cheated, and given the run-around. AOL has proven to be almost impossible to grant proper customer service to their paying customers. I do not believe that myself nor anyone else should have to experience what I’ve experienced while trying to resolve an issue, that is clearly not my fault. I believe that since I was given misinformation about my AOL account, I should not be liable for the $251.10 charge made to my account. 86 hours past a limit that I was not aware of clearly states that I was misled by AOL at my expense. I wonder how many other people have experienced this? I do not want to be credited towards my AOL account. I still have yet to be refunded the $227.00 towards my checking account.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Here it is in June 2006 and still nothing.

  • meg

    I went throught the same thing two months ago when I canceled my AOL account. I told the rep I wanted to cancel my account at least 20 times, and it took 40 minutes. Don’t feel guilty about getting that guy fired. You probably did him a favor. AOL is trying to bully customers into keeping their overpriced service.

  • http://chapel-perilous.net/caiterwauling/ Cait

    Fortunately, I never had anything to do with AOL. I accidentally saw the news segment today. I was blown away when the name “Vince Ferrari” popped up on the screen. You looked great Vince, and came across like the intelligent, even-tempered guy you are. I loved you conversation with AOL. You were so contained. Even the newscaster commented on it. Way to go.

  • Matt Gudgel

    After closing my account THREE TIMES, and still contiinuing to get bills for usage, I had to cancel my bank account so they would stop taking the payment out of my account. I was promised several times that the reimbursement for services not rendered was “in the mail.” Ya, right!
    I went so far as to disconnect my land line and switch to cellular only to try to get out of the grasp of these CRIMINALS. I view it as no less than pure unadulterated THEFT BY DECEPTION. “Yes your account is closed sir.” Then my statement from the bank came, AOL still charging monthly! I do not even have web @ home anymore because of this for fear that other companies may want to hitch a ride on this growing and continuing GRAVY TTRAIN of theft from the masses. What reprisals do they have? Is there anyone standing up for us?

  • Emma

    AOL did the same stuff with me when I tried to cancel. But then I finally told them the “truth” – I was leaving the country for one year for missions work in Africa and wouldn’t have access to running water, let alone a computer or a telephone. I assured them I would love to subscribe again when I returned; I was so very “happy” with AOL. NOT! I had just heard enough horror stories to know that when they started down that road of no return, that I should just lie, lie, lie. I did, and it worked like a charm.

  • Eric

    I work for AOL, I am very proud of the company I work for, I can not speak for all of the 11,000 employees I work with, but that call really upset me, we are held to a higher quality than that. I can only promise our customers mean a lot to us. We want people to know that this company will not stand for this what so ever.

  • http://marortega38yahoo.com/ marlene ortega

    you did a great job, I have been beating my head against the wall with these people for 7 mos. signed up on a 90 day free trial, they started charging my account from the first month, I keep calling to cancel, they
    say they see I called and say they don’t know what happened, but put me through there B.S. game. say thay will take care of it. and always at the
    end supposedly to get it to keep charging my card, they have to transfer me to a billing dept. And everytime, it drops!!!! Imagine that!!! If you find a solution, or if there is a class action lawsuit. Please sign me up!!!!
    Thanks, and great job!!!!!!!!!!!1 Marlene

  • Dave

    I cancelled an AOL account today. I just saw the story tonight. They were quick and almost apologetic. They must be getting the word to their employees. FINALLY!

  • http://www.campharrigan.com/ Camp Harrigan

    Vince,

    Great job on Scarbough. I’m wondering what kind of pressure does AOL put on those retention clerks to persuade people to stay. At least they apologized for the time being. I’m glad I dropped them many years ago when they were friendlier.

    Be good!

    Camp

  • Skip

    I had the same thing with Netscape’s internet service. The rep just wouldn’t give up and transferred me twice and of course they made me go the song and dance each time. It took over an hour just to cancel my account. By the way, any other kind of account maintenance can be done online with them. A little irony that netscape’s news service is all over this, eh?

  • J

    Vincent – Thanks! I can totally relate! I had this problem with AOL 3 years ago. They made it virtually imposible to cancel. I had to talk to a manager of the customer service rep to finally get cancelled. Thanks for sharing your story! The sad thing the rest of my experience with AOL was a good one, so this is story will present a negative image for a good company.

  • RJ

    I just had this same problem (& others) with Earthlink. First, they told me my credit card wouldn’t be billed until the DSL service was installed & working. Unbeknownst to me, they billed me, not $12.95 but about $140 before I even received the modem & software. Then the DSL service didn’t work and tech support was a nightmare. Finally, after HOURS on the phone, I was told that some MASTER TECHNICIAN had decided that my phone lines would never carry DSL. (This is what the phone company had told me, but Earthlink disagreed and had lots of promises.)

    When I called back to officially cancel, I got some fellow who wanted to try to again try to “fix” my DSL service. I had a fever at the time and said I wasn’t about to hook all the gizmos up again, plus it wouldn’t work no matter what if my phone lines aren’t set up for it. I had to argue with him for almost an hour. Then I demanded to be put through to Cancellations which put me on hold another half hour. And then I had to argue with the idiot who handled that dept. He kept telling me that my DSL service according to his records “worked perfectly.”
    I finally got a cancellation number out of him, but then he informed me I would be liable for some $20 shipping fee on the modem. (Two other reps who signed me up swore there’d be no charges whatsoever if the DSL didn’t work.)
    I promptly called the credit card company and filed a protest on any charges. In retrospect, I see that Earthlink is based in Texas (?) and I have had bad experiences with based there & some other states. I’ll probably have to file a complaint with California Consumer Affairs about Earthlink and its fraudulent practices. It’s also maddening to have to try to deal with all these outsourced people in India who just make things up as they go.

    What’s really stupid is that I oversee a computer lab and deal with lots of students. I can badmouth Earthlink to about 100 people every week in person. What’s the problem with these companies? The web and media nowadays get the word out fast, so all the glorious ads these joker companies put out is lots of money wasted.

  • Gerard

    Vincent,

    I just saw your segment on YouTube, cool stuff man. It’s just aggravating having to deal with reps like that. I’m in retail sales and I know the line that shouldn’t be crossed. It’s just messed up that these reps work like that, pushing and pushing just trying to make the sale – no care for the other persons feelings.

  • Curt

    Vincent,

    Ralph Nader would be proud of you! Great job in anticipating that you should tape your call to cancel AOL in advance. I wish I had the forsight to do the same thing about 2 years ago when I had to endure the same battle with their customer service department. I have to admit that I did not keep my cool and they kep t hanging up on me so it took about 5 calls to finally get the account canceled.

    I think your simple recording is going to be a HUGE topic on the agenda of AOL’s next Excecutive Board Meeting.

    THANK YOU

  • larry French

    Dear Vincent,

    If you think that talking to John (no last name or CSR number) at AOL caused your account to be canceled you had better review your credit card very closely next month.

    In reality, the only sure way to cancel an AOL account is to cancel your credit card.

    John Doe will be promoted . . . to teach other CSR’s and AOL will continue their dishonest Mode of Operation . . . business as usual!

  • http://www.seekingmysanity.com/ Bridget

    Hey Vinnie – we all sat down as a family last night and watched your interview! You looked great and were just too awsome! I would have been a nervous wreck. Anyway, you are doing great as the Patron Saint. Get some rest and give the wife a hug for me!

  • GR8-1

    Speaking of taking on Vonage… I’m trying to figure out how to get Vonage’s attention like Vinnie did AOL because that monster needs to be stopped!

    I had their service for 6 months, it didn’t work for the last 3 months of that period and not only did they NOT give me a refund for 2 of those months, they charged me a cancellation fee because according to them, I broke my contract…

    VONAGE BROKE THE CONTRACT BY NOT GIVING ME THE SERVICE I PAID FOR!!!!

    After at least 20 calls…
    Countless hours on my cell phone before 9pm trying to get it fixed…
    3 months without phone service (and no 911!)
    Having to hold for at least a half hour before each call…
    Having to hold another half hour after finally being connected to a person…
    Spending a half hour trying to convince that person that I have rebooted the modem already…
    Spending $80 on a new modem because the warranty on the one they give you only last 30 days…
    The time and gas it took to return the new $80 modem when that didn’t fix it…
    The countless hours on my new Lingo phone trying to convince Vonage to give me back the money they stole from us because we didn’t have service…
    The 8 times they’ve argued and yelled and hung up on us when we tried to tell them that they broke the contract and we deserve a refund…
    And the last time when I attempted to call their corporate offices in New Jersey, just to find out that all of their numbers are in Canada, and there doesn’t appear to be a number in the United States, to finally be routed back to their Helpdesk to be told that Management declined the refund request because we broke the contract.

    ARGGGHHH!!!!

    DO NOT RISK YOUR LIFE AND THOSE OF YOUR KIDS JACKING WITH VONAGE!

    Vinnie, forget blogging…. You’ve got a new business to pursue:
    Leading the revolution against Money Grubbing Customer Service Practices!

    Why earn my money when they can just steal it?

  • Lori

    This has been going on for YEARS and is documented by a Press Release by the Office of New York State Attory General, Eliot Spitzer….

    http://www.oag.state.ny.us/press/2005/aug/aug24a_05.html

  • AOL: Den of thieves

    Stingwray:

    No laws were violated. In fact, AOL routinely tells customers that their calls “may be recorded for Quality Assurance”.

    So, it’s OK for AOL to record the call but not the customer?

    As long as one party to the call knows it’s being recorded, it’s completely legal. And, obviously in the case of the crooks at AOL, necessary.

  • AOL: Den of thieves

    Speaking of Earthlink: I wouldn’t sign up with them either. They seem to engage in some pretty shady cancellation practices, too. Not only that, but the company is owned by Scientologists. No thanks.

  • Dan

    Three words: Class Action Lawsuit. Think about it. It sounds like a ton of people have been defrauded. I’m not saying get greedy, I’m saying get together and get even. Good luck with all this.

  • RJ

    AOL: Den of thieves Says

    Actually, for business purposes, it’s legal for AOL to record the phone call – however, per the FCC, Vinnie was also legally required to advise AOL he was recording the call.

    State laws tend to rule here however, so depending on where Vinnie was, he may have engaged in criminal activity when he recorded it. For example, California has a all party consent – meaning that he was required by law to state that he was recording the call to all parties involved (this includes the rep) if such is the case – prior to the conversation.

    While it would be bad press for AOL to sue Vinnie for it, the rep would be perfectly within his legal rights to sue him for loss of job, possible defamation of character, and the like.

    Speaking as somebody who also takes calls, while I do agree that the CSR who took the call didn’t do the right think, Vinnie goaded him and was a bit rude himself. Most of the customers I deal with are friendly enough, and are reasonable most of the time. Most of them are respectful to listen. What Vinnie did was disrespectul and for the following reasons, should NOT be lauded as some kind of hero:

    1) He may have engaged in illegal activity by recording the call
    2) He lied to the rep about why he wanted to cancel.
    3) He used company property at the place where he works to record the call (misappropriation of company property?) This could also cause his company to fall under legal action since their equipment was being used.

    Essentially, Vinnie was equally unprofessional and rude, and I wouldn’t want him as my employee.

  • AOL: Den of thieves

    “While it would be bad press for AOL to sue Vinnie for it, the rep would be perfectly within his legal rights to sue him for loss of job, possible defamation of character, and the like.”

    Sorry — that wouldn’t fly. AOL fired him. If he goes after Vinnie, no jury in the world would find for the Plaintiff. Not to mention Vinnie could countersue.

    AOL’s practice of “recording this call for Quality Assurance purposes” pretty much opens the door both ways.

  • AOL: Den of thieves

    “2) He lied to the rep about why he wanted to cancel.”

    RJ, explain to me how the customer — or any citizen in the free world, for that matter — is legally bound to give a Customer Rep a “good enough” reason for canceling a service he’s paying for.

    And how does one go about proving that said customer’s answer wasn’t good enough to satisfy the Customer Rep?

    I’ve got a better one: AOL stacks the deck against the customer, making their legal “covenant” lopsided in AOL’s favor — That’s not a legally enforceable contract, either.

    Since when does a customer have to do a song and dance, begging for the release of obligation — bending to the whim of a Customer Service rep who is paid bonuses to say “No” to the customer? Does that sound like an equal, legal relationship to you?

    Sound like good faith to you?

  • Bill K.

    Vincent DOES NOT owe anyone any explanation for his cancellation, whatsoever. He called to cancel the account. He did not call to chat. He called to cancel the account.

  • john M

    Vince,
    I experienced this treatment when I tried to cancel my account. As bad as yours was, believe it or not mine was worse, I only wish I had recorded it. The rep I spoke to said much of the same things John said but my responses toward the end of the 45 minute conversation went something like this. “Cancel my f…… account now or transfer me to a f…… supervisor now!!! I don’t want to hear how you can f…… help me anymore, I simply want my account cancelled, do you under stand what the f… I’m saying or are you f…… deaf!!!? It was absolutely the worst customer service interaction I had ever experienced. Like you, I too work in the Telecommunications industry and we do everything we can to avoid churn, to a point. Thank You for exposing AOL’s practices!

  • RJ

    To AOL: Den of thieves:

    ““While it would be bad press for AOL to sue Vinnie for it, the rep would be perfectly within his legal rights to sue him for loss of job, possible defamation of character, and the like.”

    Sorry — that wouldn’t fly. AOL fired him. If he goes after Vinnie, no jury in the world would find for the Plaintiff. Not to mention Vinnie could countersue.

    AOL’s practice of “recording this call for Quality Assurance purposes” pretty much opens the door both ways.”

    The law doesn’t work like that. There are clear guidelines, and if he broke the law, he broke the law. Period. As a result, depending the what the law favors, it’s entirely possible to see Vince getting served a lawsuit for illegally recording the call by the rep who was fired. In the end, even if Vince decided to countersue, it should be understood that Vince is the one going on all the radio stations and TV and the like. That could wind up being more ammunition against him than for him if that’s the case.

    Unfortnately for your general summation, jurors are required to make a judgement based on whether or not the law was broken, regardless of their personal feelings on the matter. Whether or not they agree with what Vince did, objectively, if he broke the law, they would have to find for the plantiff – now as to what they agree the plantiff should get if that were the case – that’s a whole other matter.

    “RJ, explain to me how the customer — or any citizen in the free world, for that matter — is legally bound to give a Customer Rep a “good enough” reason for canceling a service he’s paying for.”

    I never stated he was legally bound to give a “good enough” reason. I said that he LIED about why he wanted to cancel the account. That alone makes me lose respect for the guy.

    Let me point you out to this article:

    http://www.cepro.com/news/editorial/13792.html

    Not this part here “While the AOL rep definitely handled the situation poorly, he was right to ask questions. The cancellation process is a good opportunity for dealers to mine clients for information. Obviously, if they are canceling, the company didn’t serve them well enough. It’s the service rep’s responsibility to try to find out what the company could have done better.”

    Instead Vince decided to be rude to the rep by interrupting him and not get the matter resolved in a respectful manner. However, had Vince himself been more respectful to at least listen for a moment rather than bait the rep, I’m sure that you’ll agree that the call could have ended in an entirely different matter. This isn’t a matter of AOL being unwilling to cancel the account. It’s a matter of the rep taking the call responding negatively to Vinnie’s own rudeness during the call and now it’s being scrutinized. There is a fact being overlooked. If the rep hadn’t been rude to Vinnie there, there would be no story.

    I am in no way condoing the way the the rep handled the call towards the end. He lost his composure and behaved poorly. I do handle some retention calls myself (though it’s not the primary function of my job). The stress is high – not just because a portion of the pay is dependent on keeping paying customers, but because of being berated constantly while trying to do the job. I’ve been working in the customer service industry for more than twelve years. More than ten years of that has been spent on the phone. Burnout happens, and I suspect “Jon” probably needed a vacation.

    Unfortunately, the mindset of “the customer is always right” has grown into this creature that somehow gives the idea that there is no reason to be respectful to the customer service employee – there is often the mindset that the CSR is just a mindless stupid drone who has his head shoved up his ass and is there for the customer to walk all over.

    It happens enough in retail as it is (I’ve worked that side too) and I’ve been crapped on by customers in that respect. It’s significantly worse on the phones. In the world of retail, there is typically face-to-face interaction. People have that human element in front of them and it seems to create a filter – where somebody who is upset will at least be willing to deal with the person in front of them (or at least keep in mind that they are talking to another human being.)

    When working on the phones, I’ve heard people say things and behave in ways that they would NEVER do if they were face to face. Why? Because there is that lack of human contact. The connection is gone. They don’t have a fear of repercussion or feel a need to have regard for the other person’s feelings. That said, when it comes to the customer service industry, phone representatives have it the hardest. It’s probably the most stressful of all jobs in the customer service industry. I don’t know how many reading this have worked in a customer service job. Put yourself in the rep’s shoes for a moment. Whether you have done this type of job or not, the best way to get excellent customer service (even if cancelling an AOL account) is to be an excellent human being. This doesn’t mean being a doormat, it means being respectful and courteous in your exchange, inspite of how you may feel.

    The question is, can we objectively look at this phone call and say that Vince was on his best behavior? If that is his best behavior, you certainly don’t want him to be the face leading the cause for better customer service.

  • Teri

    RJ – Since you chose to reference this paragraph, so shall I.

    Not this part here “While the AOL rep definitely handled the situation poorly, he was right to ask questions. The cancellation process is a good opportunity for dealers to mine clients for information. Obviously, if they are canceling, the company didn’t serve them well enough. It’s the service rep’s responsibility to try to find out what the company could have done better.”

    1. while it may be a good opportunity to “mine” clients for information…I, as a client, have no legal, personal or moral obligation to oblige. If you want to take up MY valuable time to figure out how to increase YOUR profits….you had better ask verrrrrry nicely….

    2. JOHN had no intention of cancelling Vincent and then finding out how AOL could have served him better. His priority was “retain” Vincent as a customer. Naming the “Cancellation” Center the “Retention” Center represents the most blatent conflict of interest….it just gives me the creeps….

    3. When dealing with a client who is adamant about cancelling their service, well then you, as a CSR, should just do that and move on to the next call. JOHN chose to berate, degrade, insult and flat out refuse Vincents request.

    4. Whether Vincent was on his best behavior is completely irrelevant. If I pay YOU for a service….it’s YOUR job to be on your best behavior, not mine.

  • Melinda

    I went through the same thing with “The new ATT”. They lied to me, and canceling was like pulling teeth. It took me two weeks to undue the mess. I realize it’s their call centers that they have contracted out. I had an interview with a call center, then I read your problem with AOL and I cancelled my appointment. They can’t pay me enough to be evil. God Bless You

  • http://www.freshosts.co.uk/ James Ash

    Hi, Your news is today been on UK websites and also i think that the BBC may run it in the United Kingdom. We have the same issues along with a few more with AOL here in the UK a mate of mine had issues with AOL on an upgrade the support staff just kept saying he was in the wrong when after months of issues it was AOL and in the end they gave him 4 months of free service for the issues. May i say well done for a top site!