Twenty one minutes, wow this is such a catastrophe. Are you going to be okay? I hope so, seeing that you had so much taken from your life. As for John, well it is a good thing that he has lost his Job, perhaps he has a family he needs to support but hell, you are redeemed for your 21 minutes. He and his family should spend several months in financial hardship.

RJ, if any CSR (or “retention” specialist) believes it is a fault of the customer not to cooperate in answering the CSRs questions regarding cancellation, then you need to be retrained. Badly.
If a phone rep ever has ANY sense at all that their questions are irritating the customer, they should jump to the bottom of the flow-chart where it says “cancel the account”. Not only is that good customer service, it's also good "retention" because I may sometimes cancel a service prematurely and if I need to go back to them, I will likely pick the providers whose customer service I remember as being pleasant. Cancelling an account in 30 seconds with a minimum of “none of your business” type questions would live in my memory forever.

Also, you are incredibly gullible. In the possibilities on your list, John lying to Vincent is present, but it is dead last. If I ran a business and had no sense of ethics, I’d certainly want you for a customer...
Your best guess is that John was telling the truth about the infamous 545 hours usage and that Vincent was lying. This company’s apparent SOP is to continue to take money from customer account after the customer has canceled, as has been shown by state Attorneys General. Do you really assume a morally bankrupt company that drains checking accounts trains their CSRs to be honest with their callers? Or would fire them for lying to the customer? If they are trained to keep the customer on the phone as long as possible and frustrate them enough in the hopes that they hang up in a “save”, arguing with the customer about hours usage is one of many ways to do it.
On one side we have AOL’s long-time underhanded practices as a matter of public record, on the other we have Vincent who, through his public appearances has likely saved many fence-sitters from subscribing to AOL to begin with (thereby giving them back hours of their lives because they will never be subjected to a customer service call contrived to waste that life). I, and thousands of others, know which of the two have provided the greatest “service.”

And thanks for that service, Vincent. With every public appearance resulting in a non-subscriber or a cancellation, it’s a small slice of rarely-seen justice. Cheers to you!

Legal Fund for the Scapegoat

We need to raise money for the guy who was fired for doing what he was trained to do.

Let's help prime the pump. AOL's probably thinking about hush money, or about getting this guy out of the country. Or worse.

If one million AOL victims donated $5 each, we can start offering AOL witnesses & former employees enough to retire on. In exchange for testimoney. Bonuses for convictions of management.

What if 10 minutes is not long enough to properly answer a tech support call?

Crazy. Absolutely crazy.

Read: "Punished by Rewards" by Alfie Kohn, and "The New Economics" and "Out of the Crisis" by W. Edwards Deming.

Is someone writing a book, or developing a documentary on this stuff (that is, AOL's absurd and tragic business practices)? The time to do interviews is now, before it goes under. The best thing to come out of this would be a lot of learning -- just like we all learned from Enron.

Vincent-

Would love to do an interview with you tomorrow. (Monday). Please give me an email back so we can set up a time- Thanks!

-Guy Bauer
WLUP-FM - Chicago

Happiest day of my life was when I finally cancelled AOL. SAme for MSN and Earthlink.

AOL Employee: What a great post. Good luck to you and consider yourself blessed to be out of that cesspool.

Your post and others like it tell the real tale while RJ desperately tries to put whipped cream on a turd.

Vinny I worked in the AOL retention department for a while I have since been "relocated" to a different department which is also just as much a joke. You have no idea how many times I cringed when I took saves calls. The requirement when I was there was to make three saves attempts and maintain a 60% saves rate but the process has become more stringent and there is a member connect flow everyone must follow. When I worked in retention CSR's were given $11 for every account they saved that was active for 90 days. This is why some folks get two and three months of free AOL. I made a killing in retention but we were really taught to push free time then. Now you would never get anyone in middle management to admit this but any of those CSRs who had an exceptionally high saves percentage were not monitored on calls. Anyone with a low saves percentage was badgered or eventually pushed out the door because they effected the supervisors bonus. I know the value per save has drastically dropped now but judging by Johns attempts it must be somewhat lucrative. The retention department has always been shady because of the exceedingly high expectations placed on their CSR's.

Its hard for me to put this in words because you would need to understand more of the "culture" of AOL to understand why I sympathize with John. Your call was nothing compared to some of the calls I have had or heard. If you feel like you were redeemed by what happened to John then you lost because he had lost his job before you thought to call in to cancel your account. Scott Falconer did nothing for you the department in AZ is officially laid off as of June 30th. I am so ashamed it took this to happen to make corporate see the errors of their ways. I'm sure they will say John was a fluke of nature when this is what consistently happens. Corporate piles mountains of expectations on all of its CSRs across the board. I'm in tech support I am given one bonus a month based on MSI, Smart Transfer (sales crap), HSIO (more sales crap), sign on duration, schedule adherence, lost time, idle time, and call time. In order for me to bonus well I need you off my phone in 10 minutes or less and its very difficult to do this. MSI is Member Satisfaction Index. The survey is all about my ability to assist you. We would all get great MSI's if we could really take the time to resolve your issue but we lose bonus money because of the call time not to mention you could lose your job. So if you ever call tech support and someone sounds hurried you know. Anyone who works on the phone at AOL knows it is a no win situation.

Vinyl if you had not recorded that call a supervisor at AOL would have seen it as a coaching opportunity to help John find better ways to draw out hidden concerns. I am planning on leaving AOL very soon this whole situation has sickened me immensely. I talk to an average of 40 people a day. The majority of my calls begin with I had to wait this long amount of time to get to you, the automated system sucks, and I hope you are American. There is nothing we can do to change it corporate has never listened to its CSR. If we ask why they would tell us its none of our business we don't need to know. If we say something is wrong they say it will not change. They never cared until it was to late. I wasted 10 years on this pathetic, incompetent company. I'm cashing out on my stock and bailing this burning ship.

You are awesome man, ignore these internet fruitcakes who are putting you down.

In Canada, Bell Canada is just as bad

AOL = Always Obviously Lame

rock on Vinny...don't listen to the trolls.

Cindy,
Thank you! i completely agree with both of your posts!

You sound (and no doubt are) as kind and competant as 99.99% of all of the CSR's i've ever interacted with. And I interact with a lot. I'm of the old school and prefer to do most of my business with a person over the phone, rather than handle it on-line. And truth be told, I actually enjoy it.

Cancelling AOL was horrendous! I felt verbally assaulted after I hung up with them!!!! It wasn't until after I cancelled that I researched this and found many horror stories similar to mine. I was shocked!

If this story had been about any other company...I would really just chalk it up to..."someone was having a bad day" be it CSR or Customer (you can usually tell who ends up being the beligerant one)....but the moment I heard "AOL Cancelation".....

THANKS, Bill.
You are right on the point....if a company needs a "retention" dept., then there is something wrong with the product or the service. End of story.

Paul is correct also. The long winded debates above between RJ and Vinny, prove, all by themselves, RJ respects himself NOT the customer. Defensive instruction to a paying customer is not honoring the customer. RJ needs further training/instruction on listening, as Vinny so aptly pointed out here. As consumers, we ALL need wisdom...not training in interaction with the people we are paying for a service or a product by a CSR!!

To suggest otherwise is arrogant. Vinny's recording passes wisdom on to all of us!

Here's an opportunity for some enterprising soul:

"Death to AOL!" bumper stickers.

(More direct than "AOL sucks," don't you think?)

Vinny, RJ is a troll, a moron, or probably both.

AOL is supposed to serve the customer, not the other way around. Your entire call would have taken under 30 seconds at any company with good customer service. You said nothing rude until it was clear that being civil was getting you nowhere.

And BTW, just like another commenter above, AOL also asked to see my father's death certificate when I was trying to cancel the account, which they had billed to my mother (who used the same card) for several months after his death. They argued that under their terms of service (sic), they didn't owe a refund. I said BUT HE IS DEAD! HE DIED SEVERAL MONTHS AGO, AND YOU AND I BOTH KNOW THE ACCOUNT HASN'T BEEN USED!

When a big company is INTENTIONALLY screwing over your 80 year old mother and refuses to stop.........

Well, I've never been as mad in my life. Not by a long shot.

I hope your press coverage costs them many million dollars. (I also hope their headquarters gets hit by a meteor, but I'm not holding my breath for that one.)

Cindy, you rock. You are the kind of person, with the kind of training you've had, who makes me feel *good* about a company, even if, short term (emphasis on SHORT TERM), I might be discontinuing business with them. (If you want fantastic customer service, try Amica Insurance. I'm a customer, not an employee -- this is an unpaid endorsement. It's just that they are *ALWAYS* great on the phone. They answer quickly. They have recently done a small amount of cross-selling to me, but they listen and stop *immediately*, with no backlash, when I say "no.")

I must ask: Why hasn't AOL trained people the way Cindy has been trained?!?!? Imagine if AOL had "pounded into" its employees that you HONOR THE CUSTOMER'S REQUEST -- period. That is exactly the opposite of what AOL has done. Maybe AOL isn't as much of a "repeat business" business as an airline, but they still have a REPUTATION to be concerned about. A bad reputation can bring down a company, and may yet do just that with AOL. I personally have told tons of people my own AOL cancelling horror story, and have otherwise made it less likely to people will stay, join, or re-join AOL, or feel good about the brand known as AOL or America Online. By attempting to "save" or "retain" me -- instead of respecting me and listening to me -- AOL did vastly more damage than if they had said, "Sure, I'll get that cancellation set up right away" (or better yet, allow me to cancel online).

Go Vinny. Disregarding your interest in cancelling is the fundamental rudeness. I find AOL's behavior in treating a cancellation call as a "retention" or "save" opportunity indefensible, and reprehensible. If you want to retain or save customers you (1) provide a service that's worth the money you charge for it, and (2) you RESPECT YOUR CUSTOMERS and their dignity and their rights and their autonomy and their brains. Trying to "talk someone out of cancelling" violates #(2).

Think about this: AOL could have had a quick, simple online procedure (with a very reasonable security verification) for cancellation, and instead of keeping, what, hundreds (thousands?) of people on the payroll to be in "the retention department," COULD HAVE PUT THESE SAME PEOPLE TO WORK TO, INSTEAD, IMPROVE THE PRODUCT AND/OR FIGURE OUT WAYS TO BRING DOWN COSTS FOR THE CUSTOMER and/or branch out into other businesses. The whole company would be "the retention department." That is: You retain customers by treating them well, and respecting all of their decisions, and having basic empathy (and realizing that AOL is not a charity, and people have absolutely no obligation to support it). With such a culture in place, everyone would have been happier: the customer, the employees, and the shareholders.

I suggest this axiom: If a company has to have a "retention department," (or, God forbid, "save" quotas), the company has a bad product.

If customers are quitting in droves, you have a bad product. You are not meeting the needs of the market.

Better to fix the product, or sell other products.

After working almost 8 years in an airline call center AND listening to the entire tape of Vincent's call on KFI Los Angeles, I am appalled as a consumer and as a CSR that NOT HONORING a customer's request is even an option!!! As a paying customer, one chooses or chooses not to use a product. There is no expectation of behavior OR conduct. The only expectation from the customer is payment. Period.
When my customers call to cancel a flight or release a ticket they've held, I CANNOT argue them into not doing that. The most intrusive question I am allowed to ask is "Are they any other options you'd like to explore?"No? Here is your confirmation cancellation #.
We are suppose to cross-sell for rental cars at the customer's destination so we DO ask if one is needed. If they say "no", I can't ask them "why" or "what mode of transportation ARE you using?" or "are they sure?". This is pounded into us, we honor our customer's request. My average cancellation request call amounts to 11 seconds.
Vinny, you've done good. As a consumer, you are helping others who have been intimidated by these CSR jerks. Thank you!

The time for exploring is when an irate complaint call comes in. You can see my sweet smile right through the phone....and I won't let them hang up until they're smiling right back at me!

RJ, you're either deaf or dense. Whichever it is, I'm done with you. You listen every bit as good as Jonathan did. With him it was cancel the account. With you, it's everything I say.

Two peas in a pod.

You wanna blame me for daring to say the S word to him, go right ahead. You wanna say I was rude by repeating Cancel the Account, the purpose of my call, after he tried to engage me in a conversation about why, go right ahead.

Your wrong, you have the facts wrong, the story wrong, and aren't listening to anyone who says you're wrong. If I wanna argue with a brick wall, I'll cancel AOL.

I'll leave you to play by yourself and anyone else who wants to entertain your redundant and baseless version of the events that are plain as day in the recording.

And every time you interrupted him, you were listening as well? My point is that it does work both ways which is why I said you lacked common courtesy on that call yourself. This is why I said that in order to get the best customer service, be a good customer. That means a conversation where you respect each other, but you didn't really give him a chance once you started interrupting him. He should have had some kind of offer - probably presented earlier in the call too. Him not doing that earlier? 100% his fault. As I stated earlier, much of my job is spent on the phones too. I see no reason to curse at a rep - ever. You did so. I admit that it bothers me greatly. It wasn't needed. I guess I'm glad I'm not in his shoes though.

As far as what you do with the computer, unless it's a national secret, why not talk about it? Maybe AOL would have value for you. Maybe not. We'll probably never know because I doubt you'll be an AOL acct holder again.

Okay, RJ, I give up.

What part of "he wasn't listening to me at all" are you having so much trouble with?

Why do I have to tell him what I do with the computer, for example?

Vinny, I'm glad you took the time to respond to me. I have listened to the call. Perhaps I'm overly harsh in calling you a liar. That would suggest you intentionally misled the rep you spoke with and that you knew in fact it was being signed onto. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt for a moment and state that you weren't aware that it was being used.

However, AIM usage does NOT show up on the usage history of the account. PERIOD. That's not up for debate. Granted, I can't look at the usage of your account like John could. So he either lied (which I question that he did so at that point of the call) or it really was used.

If it did infact show 545 hours of usage, that means that 545 hours of usage with the AOL software (not AIM) was used. AOL can not track AIM usage to the AOL account because AIM operates independenly of the AOL software. This is why names that were on AOL can still be used on AIM after an AOL account is closed. It's also the reason why AIM can be set up brand new as well. The usage of an AIM account will NEVER show up on the usage history of an AOL account. This means JOHN COULD NOT SEE AIM USAGE IN ANY WAY.

Again, this means that either John lied to you about the usage - which may be possible - maybe that was a part of him that got him fired, or somebody really had been signing onto AOL software. AIM doesn't play a role in this whatsoever. That is one fact that can not be denied. AOL consultants have mentioned this repeatedly in the comments section.

Now to address the rest. I don't know why he brought your father up. Maybe he wanted to find out if your fahter was using it and if so, maybe let your dad take over paying for the account. Of course, we don't know why he brought that up becuse you had already started interrupting him every time he tried to speak at that point.

He probably should have tried something else. To this day, we still don't really know the reason why you chose to stop using the service, and I doubt you'll give anybody the satisfaction of knowing why. He messed up - but not until he stated "That goes both ways".

It's stil unreasonable to expect him not try and do something to get you to stay. I don't know where you work or what kind of industry you are in. But I'm sure that if you are in a place that has a service provider, I'm sure you have a retention department as well.

I have not defended John's actions as a whole because he did handle the call poorly - but I'm also saying that you share some of the blame. Do you think, that maybe if you hadn't interrupted him (which you did several times, anybody who reads the transcript or hears the call - which I've done both) and listened to what he had to say, that the call just might have gone differently? If you had heard him out instead of being rude with him (my perception), he would likely have said what he had to say (I'm sure an offer was forthcoming, you didn't let him get there) and then you would still have been able to cancel the account at that point without getting ugly with him?

The steak analogy doesn't work well because you want it taken back and have it brought back out to you to your liking - you intend on still having it once it's been brought back. That analogy can't compare because retention is a completely different animal. As far as the tantrum comment, I did preface it with stated that I was being facetious, but I somehow get the feeling you missed that.

RJ, its amusing that you call being argued with and then defrauded with a phony confirmation number and then being the victim of theft a "bad experience."

But no matter. Nobody has come here to say, "Hey, I cancelled and it was painless and easy - I dont know what you guys are talking about!"

The truth is that AOL has become known for not letting customers go. Period. We dont have to explain why and if we choose not to, you still have to cancel our account. We dont have to make it easy for you. We dont have to explain, honestly or otherwise. We dont have to answer your questions. Period.

In the weeks and months ahead you will see many more examples of John and Patrick. People all over will be recording their calls now.

Caught you on that Smerconish radio program. The same thing happened to me when I cancelled AOL, and that was three years ago! This is obviously a long-standing, deeply-entrenched corporate policy. Thanks for doing something about it. I hope they get a lot more cancellations as a result, however long it takes on the phone.

To Michael Haase-

Hey, I'm sorry you had a bad experience. I can't speak for your situation. but again, a business cannot be effective (at least in terms of Mr. Stubborn) most of the time that way.

Really, it does make the rep's job harder if they won't give a good reason, regardless of what the service is. Like I said, common courtesy on both sides (which Vince did lack) helps a great deal.

RJ:

I don't know what you heard, but you apparently have not listened to the recording. In it you would've heard me tell John that my father does not use the account because he does not have the software on his computer.

He continued to rattle off hours of usage (where he got it from, I have no idea).

I told him, either way, let's cancel the account.

He then proceeded to ask me what I use the computer for (none of his business).

He then proceeded to ask me if there was something wrong with the software (something he had already asked previously and which I answered negatively).

Go back and listen to the recording. I even answered a question of no relevance (if I had broadband) and how long I had it (what difference does it make if I've had it for ten minutes or ten years)?

At the point where I said either way, let's just cancel the account, he should've stopped. Instead, he ignored me (completely and totally) and insisted on answering questions that no longer had any relevance, and at one point he asked to speak to my father.

With my birthdate, the account name (in my name) and the card number (in my name) he asked to speak to my father.

The worst thing I said to him was that he was annoying the shit out of me after he ignored my requests to cancel the account. He followed that up with "That goes both ways."

Great. Touche. Now cancel the damned account.

He then CONTINUED to brow beat me after that.

The snippiest I got with him was telling him that he annoyed the shit out of me.

I played his game for a bit, and then decided I didn't want to play anymore and just wanted to move on with the cancellation, a request he completely and totally ignored. How much more was I supposed to take from him, honestly? That call should've taken 8 seconds.

Now your analogies assume I'm lying, which is fine, because that seems to be your MO here; call me a liar. I'm cool with that because I realize you don't really know what you're talking about and just want to be the cool anti-me guy. That's fine. The truth is my dad doesn't have the software on his computer and does not use AOL. Period. He thought his account was cancelled 2 years ago, so imagine his surprise when this whole thing came out!

I'm telling you what John saw. He saw AOL instant messenger use and mistook it for AOL software usage. I readily admit that both my father and I still use AIM. Your assertion that I'm lying is based on nothing other than John's word, dude, and frankly I'm tired of you pusing it as fact. I don't think he was lying, but he was dead wrong.

A better analogy is that I go to a restaurant and order a steak. The steak is not done to my liking.

Waiter John won't take it back because I took a bite out of the mashed potatoes it comes with and then gets pissy with me about why I don't like steak.

You're convinced John's only problem was me not telling the truth and you base that on nothing. It's all good, though. You have an equal amount of information with which to make that decision and you choose to piss on me. Fine. You're probably a great ER doctor. I can imagine how your convos go:

Patient: I broke my leg.

RJ: I'm so sorry to hear that. Let me check your heartbeat.

Patient: But I broke my leg! Look at my leg!

RJ: If you want me to look at your leg, you're gonna let me check your eyes, ears, nose, throat and heart first or we can sit here and argue all day.

Then RJ proceeds to tell the patient who clearly stated the problem that he threw a tantrem.

You lose.

Good day sir.

On another note Teri -

"As a CSR……what makes you think you have the right to ask me, the customer, to do anything for you?"

Simple - common courtesy, decency, respect as another human being. Society is filled with too many egotistical self-centered people. But I find that if I am friendly and respect others, I get as well as I give most of the time. That's why I can say that even when I'm on a retention call of sorts, and they still leave, as long as we've gone through the right steps, we both leave amicably. If you don't practice it, try it sometime. You'll likely live better and sleep better if you do.

RJ, here is a simple way that AOL can help a customer who wants to cancel an account with the requisite coersion to answer a bunch of questions:

AOL: Hi, my name is Stubborn, how may I help you?
Customer: I want to cancel my account
AOL: OK, is there something wrong with the service?
Customer: I just want to cancel the service
AOL: Well, is there something I can do to perhaps make your AOL experience a little better?
Customer: Yes, you can cancel the account
AOL: Do you feel comfortable telling me why you want to cancel?
Customer: No, just cancel the account
AOL: OK, your account is closed as of today. Thank you for using AOL!

Teri, I'll address your first comment, but not the second as it's not really worth justifying.


The problem with UCL's analogy (and yours) is that service is still requested and/or desired on both instances, just in a certain manner. If Vince had said - "I want to cancel, but I plan on coming back next month" you might have a comparable argument, but as it is, that didn't happen.

But since you are fond of anaologies (and yes, I intend on being a little facetious here) it's more like this.

Vince: I ordered this steak and I don't want it anymore.

AOL: Well, what was wrong with it?

Vince: Nothing, I just want you to take it back.

AOL: I see you've eaten half your steak, what was wrong with...

Vince: You're not listening to me, I just want you to take it back.

AOL: Sir, we just want to help by knowing what's wrong...

Vince: You can help me by taking it back! Take it back! Take it back now!

END


You see, in your scenario, you actually gave a reason why there was a problem. In Vince's case... well, I'm sure you've seen kids throw a tantrum before. It's not much different in how Vince handled it. He threw a tantrum.


"UCL’s analogy was a good one…but if you don’t like that…how ’bout these..

Me: I’m sorry, I asked for my steak well done and this is rare. Please take it back and cook it until it’s well done.

Waitress: Well…what’s wrong with it?

Me: It’s rare and I’d like it cooked well done.

Waitress: It is well done…it’s only pink in the middle.

Me: I’d like it cooked a little bit more, please

Waitress: Look, i don’t know what anyone’s done to you….

Me: Whaaaaaaaaa?

Waitress: I’m doing you a favor here….pink meat tastes better…I think that when you calm down, you’ll see that I was only trying to help.

Or, how about a situation i my field, where customer service really matters…

AOL JON walks into my ER with a broken leg and meets the intake nurse.

JON: i broke my leg.

RN: sorry to hear that. What seems to be the problem…

JON: i broke my leg.

RN: Well it says on my chart here that you’ve been healthy for the last 545 hours….."

Hey dude, just for the record, I understood exactly what you meant!

Truth is, though, that they led into the show (from Neal Cavuto's in the previous hour) with lots of that death and dying stuff, so it was almost 2 hours of it before I got on camera. If you look at it in terms of programs, you're right, but sheer time, there's no mistaking what the important story was and it wasn't me.

Thanks for clarifying, though!

Vinny-

From the post "Anonymous" put on my blog, it seems as though my comments were misunderstood. The main point was where I said, "I’m not hating, at all. I’m praising you, brother!"

However, rereading my post, I can understand his misunderstanding. I wasn't 100% clear. As well, I'm saying two different things.

I think you getting on Fox New is awsome. Awsome acheivement in life, awsome to punch a stupid corporation in the nose, awsome to use your power as a citizen to publically expose the high pressure sales tactics of AOL.

However, amidst the other stories of mass death, I thought it amusing. To recap, the news was:

1) You're going to die
2) AOL sucks
3) We're all going to die

To me, that's just funny. I don't begrudge you, or Fox News, I just think it's an amusing observation and commentary on the American public's interests.

Anonymous posted on my site too. This guy certainly gets around. His intelligent, well thought out, prophanity laden response can be found at http://newlifefitness.blogspot.com

I'll keep his words there, unedited, for all to see.

Brad, thanks for responding and I'll try to answer in the best way possible. Please note that I'm not defending the actions of John when he crossed the line and responded negatively to Vince, but I am saying that Vince does share some of the blame in the way the call went. I believe too many people are looking at AOL now as an evil monster and that somehow Vince is a perfect li'l angel. Maybe some would say I'm playing devil's advocate, but I am trying to be as objective as possible in my comments. Maybe working a job on the phones colors my perceptions a little, but I'd like to think that makes me all the better qualified to comment on the situation.

RJ:

Your comments are not illiterate or rude like so many of the other AOL defenders. Thanks for that. But the comments are still bewildering. I think you misunderstand the nature of the interaction, and who is obligated to whom. For instance,

“I never stated he was legally bound to give a “good enough” reason. I said that he LIED about why he wanted to cancel the account. That alone makes me lose respect for the guy.”

I’m not sure what all this refers back to, but how did he lie? Are you assuming that the AOL rep was not lying when he said the account had been used so much (pretty much constantly, apparently)?"

The call hadn't spiraled out of control at this point. The usage records can also be seen on the AOL account (at Keyword: My account), so if he had got Vince to stay on, discovering the rep lied to him would have led to an immediate turn around and cancel, meaning, bye-bye bonus to the rep for that call. No sense in lying to the customer when it can be easily verified as being false.

"And, why does this matter? I understand you might lose respect, but as to AOL’s behavior? If I want to cancel a service being provided, I’m not obligated to tell anyone why. And if they are persistent and I choose not to be honest, does this mean I can’t get my account cancelled? In one of my own cancellations I told them I would not answer their questions. I did not want to tell them how displeased I was with their customer service (in another cancellation), partly because I didn’t want to trouble the current operator, who I presumed had nothing to do with it; nor did I want to lie. Was this satisfactory? No, she told me I was being uncooperative and she was going to keep asking questions. I could have tried lying to get them off the phone quicker, which I’m sure some people do, but it really seems that no matter what you say they will harrass you for 20 minutes."


As I've stated else where, I do take a small portion of retention calls as part of my job - maybe 15-20% of my calls. Like I said, it's not my primary focus. On those calls, it IS important to get the reasons for cancelling. While I do care about retaining the customer if possible, the faster I have the information, the faster the call is over, regardless of the outcome. They had a bad customer service experience with a prior rep? Well, that does suck, yeah, there's probably little I can do about it, but at least I can get it noted, make an offer - maybe offer some free time - no? Well, sorry to hear that, here's your cancellation information, thanks for being with us. I will tell you this, the truth doesn't trouble a rep, no matter how bad it is.

It's really this part that gets me. "If I want to cancel a service being provided, I’m not obligated to tell anyone why. And if they are persistent and I choose not to be honest, does this mean I can’t get my account cancelled?"

Why NOT? Why not be honest? Whatever happened to good old fashioned honesty? What happend to "Honesty is the best policy."? Has society become so disdainful that we feel the need to lie when we don't need to? I'm sure you don't like it when when people hold back the truth from you, and even though we who are on the phones do our best not to take it personally, it still leaves a sickening feeling in our stomachs when we know a customer is lying to us. It absolutely makes us feel like crap when we are left to feel like we could have some something different, that we didn't do our jobs well enough because we couldn't get to the heart of the matter. Try this job out for awhile, you'll know exactly what I mean. Telling the truth to us makes it not only easier for us to do our job, it distances it from becoming personal. In a way, lying to a rep IS making it personal, because it comes across (regardless of your motive) as this:

"I'm not going to tell you why I want to cancel because I don't trust you."

It's no longer a matter of having an issue with the company, it's now having a matter of telling this other person why. In otherwords, it creats static between you and the representative you are speaking to. I can tell you that this perception is a common feeling for phone representatives regardless of the company they work for - I happen to live in an area where there are call centers for 8-9 different companies (AOL among them) and have had friends who have worked for multiple companies.

“Obviously, if they are canceling, the company didn’t serve them well enough. It’s the service rep’s responsibility to try to find out what the company could have done better.”

"Okay, but if I make it clear to the rep I just want the account cancelled, any further badgering from the service rep is rude."

This is where I disagree somewhat. It allows for proper documentation of the call, and allows the company to do better in the future. It allows the customer a chance to say how they really feel, even if they are leaving. And many times - more often than not, it's something that CAN be fixed.

"“Instead, Vince decided to be rude to the rep by interrupting him and not get the matter resolved in a respectful manner.”

This is part of the problem with these kinds of defenses. He made it clear he wanted to cancel. Their was no freakin’ matter to resolve."

Sure there was, the matter was wanting to cancel - and the resolution was to cancel or not cancel. The question is what path to take to get there. Vince was unwilling to take that path. In all fairness, it made the call harder than it would have been if he'd just been upfront about why he wanted to cancel to begin with.

"“Unfortunately, the mindset of “the customer is always right” has grown into this creature that somehow gives the idea that there is no reason to be respectful to the customer service employee.”

Come on! A customer isn’t always right. But if he says he wants to cancel, he’s right about that. It should not be an option at that point. It is not a request to please cancel if I’m nice and listen to a lot of nonsense. You don’t seem to realize that people are busy and days are short. No one wants to spend 30 minutes cancelling an account. For a customer service rep who doesn’t know me to presume to have the right to take up my time, when I have clearly expressed my wish to cancel, is, I repeat, rude, company policy or not."

This shows a general lack of understanding on your part. It's perfectly reasonable for them to try to get you to stay, regardless of the company. With perhaps the exeption of public utilities like water, gas, and electric, every company that offers a service has a retention department of some sort. Even your basic local telephone service has one. And with a greater than 60% chance (based on my dealings with customers) that the issue that's causing the desire to cancel is something that can be resolved without cancelling the service, it's in my best interest to address that - not just for the sake of the company, but so that I don't short the customer in the end as well. Many times it's because they didn't know they could have their service in another area - or they wanted it, but couldn't afford the service for a month because of one issue or another, or there was a simple misunderstanding about a bill that wasn't clear, or they didn't know they had better pricing options.

About 10% of my retention calls come in where they don't want to give me the reason. Some of them I CAN fix, and some... I just can't. I prefer to be given the benefit of the doubt. For me, it's a matter of trying up to twice to get them to stay AFTER they've given me the reason why they want to cancel. So yes, it does mean that the calls where the information is being withheld actually does take longer, because then it's playing a guessing game, which frankly, I'd rather not do.

"“In the world of retail, there is typically face-to-face interaction. People have that human element in front of them and it seems to create a filter - where somebody who is upset will at least be willing to deal with the person in front of them (or at least keep in mind that they are talking to another human being.)”

Nonsense. It’s the rep who is acting differently based on the lack of face-to-face interaction, at least in the relevant situation — a simple cancellation request. "

Really? So you think Vince would have constantly interrupted somebody face to face like that? You think Vince still would have said, "you're annoying the shit out of me" as he did to John on the phone? I also doubt that John would have responded that way in person as well, but I still think Vince baited John with that line.

"I can’t imagine someone acting like that in person. But even if so, so what? That’s part of the problem. I don’t know you, the rep, have no previous interaction with you, am forced to call you to cancel an account, and you act like you’re doing me a big favor and that you have claims on my time. In my own most recent case, I told her politely I didn’t want to hear any offers, I just wanted to cancel. She said that was impossible, and kept reading a list of questions while I kept answering, No comment, I want to cancel."

Maybe it is because I work in an environment on the phones that I've developed a lot more patience in my dealings with people when I have to make calls myself. I've come to have a greater respect for their jobs and don't take it so personally as to claim that I've lost "my time". I accept it's part of the norm because competition in a healthy market requires a retention department. I don't know how much you know about business, but let me ask you this. Can a business survive without some kind of retention? The answer should be obvious. Let's talk a retail store where you had a bad experience and you don't want to shop there anymore. You make your complaint to the customer service desk, and a service manager offers you a coupon for a discount on your next visit. You've just (hopefully) been retained as a customer. Granted it's not the same as cancelling a membership, but the same idea applies. A company that has your business wants to keep it. That's the way a business works. Ideally, you won't ever have to feel the need to go elsewhere to begin with. Unfortunately for AOL, and for other companies like it, it's a unified single-focus service. It's much harder because there is a lack of diversified services. It's harder to provide incentives to stay. You might go down to your local grocer and if you buy a certain amount of goods, you get a free movie rental. AOL probably does need to change it's strategies, not only on the cancellation end, but with the services as well.

"“This doesn’t mean being a doormat, it means being respectful and courteous in your exchange, inspite of how you may feel.”

It is courteous and respectful to say I don’t have a lot of time and I just want you to cancel the account for me, please. This is what people do, and they are made to feel otherwise because of the behavior of the reps. I should add that it is frustrating to begin with to find out you can’t cancel an account online that you signed up for online, and to be told this is for security reasons. If you want to talk about lies, this is an obvious lie."

Like I said elsewhere, being upfront and honest with your reasons to cancel is really the only way to speed up the process. Ever have somebody who is upset try to take a shortcut and shove their way through to the front of the line when you were waiting to get something done? And when they get there, they just take forever to get what they wanted done because they don't want to go through the right steps? To a point, that's what Vince did here. Instead this time, the guy behind the service counter was rude back to him, which got the guy fired.

As far as the signing up online and finding out you have to call to cancel only after the account has been created? And then calling it a lie that it's done for security reasons? I do know that the info about cancelling the account comes up to read on the screen before the account is fully created. Second, AOL does allow to cancel the account by fax and mail as well. Ergo, it's not required to call to cancel service. I also know that since accounts can have the password stolen (whether by scam or by a wanna be hacker) - trying to cancel online likely does not give the proper documentation. In fact, it's probably likely legally required by the FTC that the account is verified in order to cancel, so if it's a lie, it's probably because enough explanation isn't given as to why an account cannot be cancelled online. Attempts to retain the member aside for a moment - calling in requires some info be seperately verified by another party at the time (that is, the rep). Writing or faxing in requires verification and a handwritten signature. I'm sure that isn't required just for show.


"“The question is, can we objectively look at this phone call and say that Vince was on his best behavior? If that is his best behavior, you certainly don’t want him to be the face leading the cause for better customer service.”

The behavior seems pretty good to me. He got annoyed when the rep lied to him, patronized him, wasted his time and got snippy. Seems like a good face to be leading the cause to me. I salute you, Vincent!"

Vince started interrupting the rep - which caused the call to go on longer than necessary. If there was wasted time, Vince shares in the blame for that. Again, I'm not saying John didn't screw up. He did. However, there was nothing in this phone call that leads me to believe that John lied to Vince. John did try to do his job but should have taken a different approach to it. And when the road came up to make the choice after being baited, he should have chosen the other path.

Even so, I don't hold Vince to be entirely blameless. Had John acted professionally when he was cursed at, Vince would be left looking like that jerk at the front of the line not wanting to do the right things to get what he wants done. And if that had been the case, do you think he would have been so likely to put the phone call on the internet?

RJ, you might be required by your job description to ask these questions, but where in my contract does it say that I am required to listen?

You can bet there will be hundreds of people recording their calls to AOL now, and many more "John's" will be exposed and AOL will be exposed as the "keep them at any cost" fraud they are!

Remember, they hung up on me, argued with me, then gave me a fraudulent confirmation code and STOLE money from me. Thanks to Washington Mutual (kudos to them) I got my stolen money back but if AOL acted like a law abiding company that would not have been necessary.

RJ, are you really willing to press the politeness issue with a company willing to lie, defraud and steal?

RJ - OMG...i finally get your arguement....

Your only point (despite paragraphs of blathering) is "Vincent started it"

What are you...8? Does your father know you are posting on here? Can I speak with him please?

UCL's analogy was a good one...but if you don't like that...how 'bout these..

Me: I'm sorry, I asked for my steak well done and this is rare. Please take it back and cook it until it's well done.

Waitress: Well...what's wrong with it?

Me: It's rare and I'd like it cooked well done.

Waitress: It is well done...it's only pink in the middle.

Me: I'd like it cooked a little bit more, please

Waitress: Look, i don't know what anyone's done to you....

Me: Whaaaaaaaaa?

Waitress: I'm doing you a favor here....pink meat tastes better...I think that when you calm down, you'll see that I was only trying to help.

Or, how about a situation i my field, where customer service really matters...

AOL JON walks into my ER with a broken leg and meets the intake nurse.

JON: i broke my leg.

RN: sorry to hear that. What seems to be the problem...

JON: i broke my leg.

RN: Well it says on my chart here that you've been healthy for the last 545 hours.....

RJ - your insistance that John REACTED to Vincent is absolutely incorrect.

You foolishly still have this delusional thought that we, the customers, are under some/any obligation to behave a certain way in order for the company to fulfill it's legal obligation.

Read my response to you...

Teri Says:

June 23rd, 2006 at 6:13 pm
RJ - Since you chose to reference this paragraph, so shall I.

Not this part here “While the AOL rep definitely handled the situation poorly, he was right to ask questions. The cancellation process is a good opportunity for dealers to mine clients for information. Obviously, if they are canceling, the company didn’t serve them well enough. It’s the service rep’s responsibility to try to find out what the company could have done better.”

1. while it may be a good opportunity to “mine” clients for information…I, as a client, have no legal, personal or moral obligation to oblige. If you want to take up MY valuable time to figure out how to increase YOUR profits….you had better ask verrrrrry nicely….

2. JOHN had no intention of cancelling Vincent and then finding out how AOL could have served him better. His priority was “retain” Vincent as a customer. Naming the “Cancellation” Center the “Retention” Center represents the most blatent conflict of interest….it just gives me the creeps….

3. When dealing with a client who is adamant about cancelling their service, well then you, as a CSR, should just do that and move on to the next call. JOHN chose to berate, degrade, insult and flat out refuse Vincents request.

4. Whether Vincent was on his best behavior is completely irrelevant. If I pay YOU for a service….it’s YOUR job to be on your best behavior, not mine.

As a CSR......what makes you think you have the right to ask me, the customer, to do anything for you?

You've got it all backwards....it's YOUR job to do everything in your power to make me, the customer, happy. Not the other way around. Sorry that you are required to read some full disclosure BS...but, again, i have to ask....where in the contract does it say that I have to lsiten?????????????

You work for me....get it?

How about Juno. This company is associated with AOL. They offer free trials for their internet service and when you try to discontiue the service there are no telephone numbers. No contacts to terminate their service. The only way you can cancel is to change your debit or charge card number through the bank ending any withdrawal from your accounts. They tried to hold my account open and I did have to pay for a month I didn't use. I'm still considering filing this issue with the attorney general for the state of Florida.
I don't have issues with AOL or the Bell South DSL line which is necessary to attain any internet speed.

Pete

To UCL:

"RJ,

Yes, actually, I think Vincent was on his best behavior. He was polite even when John started being rude to him. Which, by the way, was almost as soon as the call started. Only after more than one rude comment by John did Vincent begin to lose his patience, just as any normal person would lose their patience in the same situation.

When you’re seated at a dinner table and someone politely asks you to pass the salt, do you take the salt and hand it to them gracefully?

Or, do you look at them and ask, “Well, are you really sure you want the salt? How about the pepper instead? Is there something wrong with the way your meal was prepared? I saw you eating it a few seconds ago and the look on your face suggested that you think it’s delicious. So why are you asking for salt now? Rather than giving you salt, how about more potatoes on your plate? Maybe the problem is you’re not drinking enough of your wine. Tell you what… let me talk to your dad about this.” "

Your scenario has nothing to do with customer service - and fails to compare the situation... which invalidates it. Care to try again?

Rather than listen to the rep, Vince constantly interrupted him and baited the rep - note that the rep responded (badly) to Vince cursing at him. Had it been me, I probably would have responded "Well, I'm sorry that you feel that way." And then I would have proceeded to do the full disclosure the rep is required to do in the process of cancelling the service - In the part where Vince interrupted (yet again) the rep, I would have waited for Vince to finish, give a few seconds of silence - then let him know I was required to read it off and then get that call over with.

In my job, I do take (some) retention calls, but again, it's not my primary focus, as there is a seperate department for it. Most people calling in are reasonable and will give me the real reason why they want to cancel. I do have to make an attempt to keep them - a reasonable expectation of ANY JOB where the customer states they no longer want a service - I make up to two offers and if it's a no go, I cancel it.

In all honesty, I'd say that 60% of the calls I take like this are where people don't really want to cancel - but they don't see the value in staying around. In a situation like that, it's reasonable to make an attempt to get them to stay - and essential to get the real reason why they want to leave.

It helps the company do a better job when we get the truth, rather than some made up reason that really makes our jobs harder - If I can't properly document the call, I can't do my job correctly either. And that's not fair to the company or to the customer on the other end.

In the case of "John", he didn't go about it very well. In trying to be as objective as possible, in hearing the call - I heard these things:

Vince wants to cancel - so far so good.

Jon wants to know why - a reasonable question

Vince doesn't want to tell him the truth, and says he doesn't use it anymore - making Jon's job much more difficult because it really doesn't give a reason why

Jon checks the usage of service and sees 545 hours during last month's usage - and sees 545 hours in the last month

(by the way, it's worth noting that AOL's usage records are soley based on the sign in and sign out times of the use of the AOL software specifically - use of the AIM service doesn't show up in the usage records - don't believe me? If you do have access to an AOL account and AIM, sign on to each independently on two different sessions and then check the usage records at keyword: My account and you'll see that it won't show any usage during the time you were signed into AIM)

At this point, the call hadn't spiraled out of control, so I have no reason to doubt Jon's statement about the amount of time used. Unless Jon was trying to lie (which I'm sure would lead him to getting fired anyway), Vince wasn't being upfront in his reasons wanting to cancel.

This made John have to poke around and guess and ask questions, and at that point, every time John tried to find out, Vince would cut John off. This is what I mean about Vince not being on his best behavior. Most people who are on their best behavior take the time to listen to other people, if only out of courtesy. If this is Vince's best behavior, it shows just how little respect he has for other human beings. Had he been upfront to begin with, doubtless, the call would have ended better.

In my experience, interrupting somebody during a call (on either end of the conversation) makes the call take that much longer to get over with. Vince didn't extend common courtesy to John. Look at the transcript again. How many times did Vince feel the need to interrupt John when John was trying to do his job?

The call goes on... and it's the following that cost John his job, in my opinion.

Vince then curses at the guy (this is where I feel Vince baited him) and then John says, "Well, that goes both ways sir." (BAD MOVE JOHN)

John goes on to do the cancellation process and then Vince moves to interrupt him (again) and John asserts himself (badly) (JOHN, NO DON"T SAY IT LIKE THAT! - too late) and tells Vince that he WILL LISTEN and doesn't care what Vince thinks and then blah, blah, blah, the account is then closed.

It's my assertion that had John not responded negatively to Vince's own rudeness, there would be no story. Had John not crossed the line, this would have come off as Vince looking like a jerk not letting a guy do his job, and we wouldn't be talking about this now.

So what does somebody asking for salt and somebody calling in to cancel a service have in common?

Absolutely nothing.

Hi Vincent. Love how you nailed the big guys to the wall. I read about 50% of the replies and comments on this page and realized no one is calling for the banks and credit card companies to become involved in this. Instead of fighting with companies like AOL, why can't we make one call to the payment company and tell them we have cancelled a given service and not to honor payment requests from a given date? Companies like AOL can't take our money if the banks and the credit card companies aren't allowed to send it to them. Cheers.

RJ,

Yes, actually, I think Vincent was on his best behavior. He was polite even when John started being rude to him. Which, by the way, was almost as soon as the call started. Only after more than one rude comment by John did Vincent begin to lose his patience, just as any normal person would lose their patience in the same situation.

When you're seated at a dinner table and someone politely asks you to pass the salt, do you take the salt and hand it to them gracefully?

Or, do you look at them and ask, "Well, are you really sure you want the salt? How about the pepper instead? Is there something wrong with the way your meal was prepared? I saw you eating it a few seconds ago and the look on your face suggested that you think it's delicious. So why are you asking for salt now? Rather than giving you salt, how about more potatoes on your plate? Maybe the problem is you're not drinking enough of your wine. Tell you what... let me talk to your dad about this."

AOL Employee: You seem to know "John". I believe you could do John, Vincent, And every AOL customer past and present a favor if you or someone there could convince him to get in touch with either Vincent or the media of his choice. He may have "crossed the line" by corporate policy somewhere in that phone call, but the cause of it was corporate policy to begin with. Or can we expect next month former employees coming out of the woodwork ready to speak their piece?

When I cancelled AOL, I did some research first. I told them I was moving to Africa to do humanitarian work. The phone call took about 3 minutes. NEW RECORD TIME!!!! So if you're reading this and want to cancel tell them you are becoming a monk, or a nun, or amish. I don't think AOL has trained their CSR's on how to respond to those.. oh yeah and tell them you live alone with no one else. NOT EVEN A DOG.

http://media.putfile.com/Trying-to-Can-AOL-705

I love AOL. I'vd used hem sveeral tyms. This leter waz ritten and spellcheked on OAL, then sentt az a wurd attackment. Yuo aer nutz f uyo dot'n luv LOA and thar eggsalant servis. Normully I am en aweful spiller, butt thay fiksed that too. I well be fourever greatfilled four AOL.

I had signed up for a 30-day trial of AOL's music downloading service (I forget what its official name is called) but it required me to have an AOL account, which I used to log into the service.

I tried it once for about 1-2 minutes, then I just was busy with the family, work and other stuff and I had noticed a reminder about my 30-day free trial was ending and I would start to be charged monthy thereafter if I didnt cancel within the 30 days.

I called AOL up, and just like Vincent, seriously, it took me 30 minutes to cancel my service. The AOL rep asked alot of the same questions Vincent got asked repeatedly and he even went as far as saying, "Well if you didnt use the service, then why did you waste everyones (AOLs) time signing up for it then and barely use it?" My ending comment was much like Vincents: "Listen, I'm not saying this again, I want my AOL account cancelled because it is within your 30-day trial day which is in your Terms and Agreement. I want nothing to do with AOL, cancel my account now and immediately. If you cannot do that now, I want to talk to your manager." And after cutting him off on the phone to refute me some more, he *finally* did cancelled it.

Case in point: AOL's extra way of having "trial" offers for competing services like this is just another way to rope in revenue to a dying service called "dialup" that they are a part of. Dont offer a 30-day trial with a "no-hassle" cancellation anytime before the 30 days are up if you are going to honor it with a run-around and rudeness.

John worked in the AOL Retention department in Tucson, AZ. In April, John and 300 other AOL retention employees in AZ were notified their department was being shut down. They are shutting down "officially" June 30th. So John was already going to lose his job he would have received a severance package of $3000. John was trained to behave the way he did on that call. Corporate is covering their butts. AOL has shut down many call centers in the US that is one reason it why it takes so long to get through to a live person along with the very unsuccessful automated voice response system. Many of us who take calls for AOL have complained on our customers behalf that it does not work and corporate never listens. It also greatly impacts our Stats. The automated system is there to replace its phone operators in the future. I am disgusted by corporates lack of commitment to its employees and its members. I hope anyone who reads this feels a bit of pity for John he was trained to function that way. He is only a scapegoat for the AOL LLC.

I too recorded the phone conversation of closing my AOL account from last july (2005) but just never "let it out" on the chance of legality. But, it seems things went fine for you, so here is my recording for some additional fun...

http://media.putfile.com/Trying-to-Can-AOL-705

So it seems this tactic has been used for at least the past year and doesn't look very good for the isolated incident theory :)

RJ:

One further comment about the following statement:

"Obviously, if they are canceling, the company didn’t serve them well enough. It’s the service rep’s responsibility to try to find out what the company could have done better.”

This is simply not true. Sometimes people die, and so they don't need an account anymore. Sometimes people might want to try other services. Sometimes people get high-speed connections and simply don't need AOL. And, yes, some people may just not want it anymore. In fact, this is probably the case with most cancellation requests -- people who are not at all unhappy with AOL until they try a simple cancellation.

RJ:

Your comments are not illiterate or rude like so many of the other AOL defenders. Thanks for that. But the comments are still bewildering. I think you misunderstand the nature of the interaction, and who is obligated to whom. For instance,

"I never stated he was legally bound to give a “good enough” reason. I said that he LIED about why he wanted to cancel the account. That alone makes me lose respect for the guy."

I'm not sure what all this refers back to, but how did he lie? Are you assuming that the AOL rep was not lying when he said the account had been used so much (pretty much constantly, apparently)? And, why does this matter? I understand you might lose respect, but as to AOL's behavior? If I want to cancel a service being provided, I'm not obligated to tell anyone why. And if they are persistent and I choose not to be honest, does this mean I can't get my account cancelled? In one of my own cancellations I told them I would not answer their questions. I did not want to tell them how displeased I was with their customer service (in another cancellation), partly because I didn't want to trouble the current operator, who I presumed had nothing to do with it; nor did I want to lie. Was this satisfactory? No, she told me I was being uncooperative and she was going to keep asking questions. I could have tried lying to get them off the phone quicker, which I'm sure some people do, but it really seems that no matter what you say they will harrass you for 20 minutes.

"Obviously, if they are canceling, the company didn’t serve them well enough. It’s the service rep’s responsibility to try to find out what the company could have done better.”

Okay, but if I make it clear to the rep I just want the account cancelled, any further badgering from the service rep is rude.

"Instead, Vince decided to be rude to the rep by interrupting him and not get the matter resolved in a respectful manner."

This is part of the problem with these kinds of defenses. He made it clear he wanted to cancel. Their was no freakin' matter to resolve.


"Unfortunately, the mindset of “the customer is always right” has grown into this creature that somehow gives the idea that there is no reason to be respectful to the customer service employee."

Come on! A customer isn't always right. But if he says he wants to cancel, he's right about that. It should not be an option at that point. It is not a request to please cancel if I'm nice and listen to a lot of nonsense. You don't seem to realize that people are busy and days are short. No one wants to spend 30 minutes cancelling an account. For a customer service rep who doesn't know me to presume to have the right to take up my time, when I have clearly expressed my wish to cancel, is, I repeat, rude, company policy or not.

"In the world of retail, there is typically face-to-face interaction. People have that human element in front of them and it seems to create a filter - where somebody who is upset will at least be willing to deal with the person in front of them (or at least keep in mind that they are talking to another human being.)"

Nonsense. It's the rep who is acting differently based on the lack of face-to-face interaction, at least in the relevant situation -- a simple cancellation request. I can't imagine someone acting like that in person. But even if so, so what? That's part of the problem. I don't know you, the rep, have no previous interaction with you, am forced to call you to cancel an account, and you act like you're doing me a big favor and that you have claims on my time. In my own most recent case, I told her politely I didn't want to hear any offers, I just wanted to cancel. She said that was impossible, and kept reading a list of questions while I kept answering, No comment, I want to cancel.

"This doesn’t mean being a doormat, it means being respectful and courteous in your exchange, inspite of how you may feel."

It is courteous and respectful to say I don't have a lot of time and I just want you to cancel the account for me, please. This is what people do, and they are made to feel otherwise because of the behavior of the reps. I should add that it is frustrating to begin with to find out you can't cancel an account online that you signed up for online, and to be told this is for security reasons. If you want to talk about lies, this is an obvious lie.

"The question is, can we objectively look at this phone call and say that Vince was on his best behavior? If that is his best behavior, you certainly don’t want him to be the face leading the cause for better customer service."

The behavior seems pretty good to me. He got annoyed when the rep lied to him, patronized him, wasted his time and got snippy. Seems like a good face to be leading the cause to me. I salute you, Vincent!

I had a run in with AOL 12 years ago while I was in college. I went for their "FREE" service and ended up with a large credit card bill. Needless to say they were dismissive about the FREE trial and would NOT HONOR THE PROMOTION. I complained to the credit card company, who incidently was VERY FAMILIAR with them and had the charges reversed. The satisfying part was telling AOL to go screw themselves and asking them for more free offers.

Just wanted to state I tried to cancel an account I opened with AOL, offered we purchased my Aunt new computer from Dell. At end of the six months, a young man from India called me at work and pushed and pushed, for me to continue the service after the six months of free service had expired. I believe in a company working to profit but the insistence of the AOL representative was ridiculous. I will never associate myself with paid AOL service as a result of my personal and now your experience. Thank you so much for sharing...

It was great to see your story! While I have never had the displeasure of subscribing to AOL (and I would never consider it now), I did have a similar experience with American Express and several other "brand name" credit card companies.

After my wife and I had worked very hard to pay off all of our credit card debt and go strictly cash and carry, I had the unfortunate task of having to call these companies to close our accounts. Most of them were pretty easy with it after my explanation of why I was closing the accounts, but AMEX and Fleet were the WORST!!!

The 20 minute call to Fleet started as a run-around with an automated response program (you would think after all the revenue they generate through fees and interest, they could afford a REAL person), and it was one of those programs trying to sound human. You know; "If you are calling regarding your bill, say 'bill', if your card was lost or stolen say 'lost'. The worst was "I'm sorry, I did not undertand your response, please call back and try again later." And then "it" hung up on me! Well now, I'm just major pissed, I call back and just press zero 20 times and it worked! A real LIVE person! I quickly let them know my displeasure and then had the satisfaction of hanging up on them!

American Express? A 30 minute fiasco!!! Talked to a live rep this time, but I had to talk to 3 different ones. I got the "You have been a valued customer (yeah right) for 10 years, what can we do to change your mind?" and "Keep it for emergencies." And just a whole dictionary full of reasons why I should keep my card. I finally had to say "What part of no do you not understand?"

So anyway, glad to see you got a national shout out. It's not just AOL though! I won't join, sign up, or apply for ANY service ever again that does not have a clearly defined account closing process online or otherwise...

This same thing happened to me with BOTH AOL and Earthlink. I can understand them trying a little to get someone to stay on but they really need to know when to quit. I don't know, maybe they dock their pay or something. It would be interesting to hear from a former AOL employee.

Chris
homeandholidays.com

All in all I have heard a lot of horror stories of how anyone wanting to cancel their AOL membership has to go through a nerve wracking experience to do so. I believe Vincent should be commended for standing up for his rights as a customer. After all, Vincent repeatedly told the AOL representative that he wanted his AOL membership cancelled and the AOL representative should have simply honored Vincent's request. At where I work we do not tolerate poor customer service in any form whatsoever and we take the time to listen to the customer's request. The actions of this AOL representative clearly defines poor customer service on the part of AOL.

If AOL wants to remain in business it should be sensitive to the needs of its customers including the honoring of account cancellation requests. I am happy with my current ISP and, given the negative experiences I have read from others, I will not sign up for an AOL membership. Furthermore, AOL desperately needs to streamline its account cancellation process for the AOL members that explicitly request account cancellation.

Kudos, Vincent! I saw your story on Jeanne Moos and just had to drop a comment your way. Well done and congrats. I know you've already heard this a thousand times, and you're gonna hear it a thousand more times, but your conversation was nearly identical to the one I had with a rep when I tried to cancel my AOL account a couple years ago. I am still stunned that companies use these kinds of tactics. I'm also with Mr. Pinero, I think John's orders came down from the top. AOL is getting off the hook by scapegoating the poor loser and sucking up to you.

I was paying for my father's aol service. He was 76 and I would take care of his computer for him. When he passed away, I tried to cancel his account that I had been paying for with my credit card. During the midst of a 40 minute fight to get cancelled one of the comments made was that I had to prove my father died by sending in a copy of the death certificate. I wish I recorded THAT conversation.

Hey, maybe we can get Congress to pass a new national holiday called 'Everyone Turn On Your Tape Recorder Day'. Good job, Vincent!

Good Work. I had the same experience with Vonage... though at least AOL provides the correct number on their website to cancel your account. The "cancel account" number on Vonage's site sends you to a VRU where there is no cancel option and when you do finally talk to a real person they send you to another number... and then that person give you the ten to twenty minute run-around. There is no excuse for making cancelling service that difficult, no matter the customer's reason for cancelling nor their attitude. I would love to see the CSR "training" and incentive plans at all of these types of companies.

AOL SAYS they fired "John" but I bet they just promoted him to help train the other CSRs.

Anyone interested in contacting AOL directly, call their HQ at 703-265-1000. Address is 22000 AOL Way, Dulles, VA 20166-9302. They are owed by Time Warner. Their site has information on mgmt. including members of the Board of Directors, the Execs, etc. -- very interesting (wish THEIR phone numbers were published). Be sure to read their "Values" www.timewarner.com). Their address is One Time Warner Center, NY, NY 10019-8016, phone 212-484-8000. Call them and keep them on the line a while . . . .

I say "kudos" to you, Vincent. It's about time someone did what you did so that everyone in the country can see how this publicly-traded multi-million dollar company treats their customers. None of us in America have time for this sort of treatment. I'm thankful that I've never used them, don't subscribe to Time Magazine or any of their other services/products.

To those folks saying, "you set them up, and blah, blah" Hey, they've already got a bad reputation! Vincent had already heard that it was gonna be hard to cancel! He knew that going in -- that's why he recorded it in the first place! He didn't know he was gonna make radio and TV with this!!

Hi,

I too think you are a hero. I both enjoyed and shuddered at watching that report. Enjoyed that someone exposed them, but shuddered at remembering my own experience about 2 years ago.

I had the same frustrating response to my request for cancellation, I finally stated that if they didn't agree to cancel I was hanging up. That didn't stop them from going on, so I did hang up in frustration.

I called back and got a different rep, and told them I had hung up on the previous rep because he wouldn't let me cancel. I explained the reason I wanted to cancel and wasn't interested in their retention offers was because I had already signed up with a local cable company. Believe it or not, this 2nd rep was a lot more cooperative, so those that say don't blame John are wrong. Maybe the 2nd rep didn't go to the annoy the customer at any cost seminar as he really did help me.

I had been warned how difficult it was to cancel, but I was still surprised when I received a letter from AOL a couple weeks later thanking me for staying on as a customer. I was livid, I had to be pro-active, and wrote a response saying, what part of "I want to cancel, don't you understand" and faxed it right back to them.

Thank God I was finally free of them.

The poster who stated John was only trying to help is unreal. I think I remember the first rep repeatedly stating that also, and my response was no, you are doing your best to annoy me, helping me would be to honor my request to cance. That kind of "help" no one needs.

Wow, it felt good to vent about that AOL experience. Thank you again Vincent!!!

Hey,

Great Job!! Power to the People!!
I think it is a wonderful thing you have done because I'm growing tired of the abusive corporations taking advantage of its customers.

I was wondering if you can give me any tips on how I can handle a complaint I have with Sony? I'm trying to aquire a refund because they billed me for a SOE online gaming. I cancelled the account online and it didn't go through when I found out they billed me again I called them up and asked them for a refund because I used the online cancellation. They said "NO" they can't do that and I then asked is there anyone else I can speak to and they said "NO" there is no way for me to get a refund.

Any suggestions please?

I am an insurance broker.. and my clientele is largely latino.. a few of them are uneducated and don't know how to go about doing certain things. I noticed she had AOL and i asked her how much she was paying.. she said she was paying 30 dollars for it. I told her that she needs to cancel it and get DSL or something else. She said that she had already tried to cancel it but that they didn't allow her to.. I did it for her, it took me 20 minutes to get it all done.. i got tossed around to 4 different people and in the end i could barely hear their voice.. i thought it was the phone but i think it was another tactic they use. I'm glad this was posted and reported on!

I can't believe the way that CSR talked to you. You shouldn't feel bad that he was fired. The minute he said, "You WILL listen to me" his job was toast, no matter how much AOL wanted him to keep your account.

I loved the recording though. You are awesome!

I had a similar situation with my Mom's AOL account. After she passed away I called and tried to cancel it. The guy with whom I spoke kept trying to talk me into keeping it. I explained that I had my own AOL account. He finally said he'd cancel it. But, he didn't.

I cancelled her credit cards. AOL tried to auto debit a card and was rejected. They called and I explained that my Mom had died, and I'd cancelled (or tried to at least) the AOL account and the credit card. A month or two after that, after many phone calls, I received a letter addressed to my Mom threatening to turn her account over to collections. It took about 5 months to get AOL to close the account and stop calling and writing.

I had a problem where they charged my personal credit card falsely for over 6 years, around 4500.00, I kept trying to cancel, they said yes we know there is no activity on that account and they continued to charge me, I did not know the security question and they said the account was not setup in my name, I tried for hours and days, they stole over 4500.00 from me. I eventually had to cancel my credit card.

Can someone help me please!!!!

I thought it was just me they were doing that to.

"I feel sorry for the fellow who was terminated; he was only following standard operating procedure."

No - if your employer asks you to do something immoral or illegal, you should refuse. Likewise, if your employer is doing something illegal, you have an obligation to report them. A twisted sense of corporate loyalty is no excuse.

You're on CNN with Jeanne Moos in the video section. Thats how I found your site.

Nice! I have had to cancel 2x's. 1st they sound like they really want to help you, but when they know they have lost you you can tell they are only looking out for themselves. I will never use AOL in my life.

And that letter... Give me a break. They just tell you junk to look good. Why can't they say "we fired him"? -

Don't mess wid da BRONX!!!!

Way to go... phone in and be a beligerent dick to someone and see how they respond.. well done. Sounds like he was genuinely trying to help you. Take an anger management course.

RJ - Since you chose to reference this paragraph, so shall I.

Not this part here “While the AOL rep definitely handled the situation poorly, he was right to ask questions. The cancellation process is a good opportunity for dealers to mine clients for information. Obviously, if they are canceling, the company didn’t serve them well enough. It’s the service rep’s responsibility to try to find out what the company could have done better.”

1. while it may be a good opportunity to "mine" clients for information...I, as a client, have no legal, personal or moral obligation to oblige. If you want to take up MY valuable time to figure out how to increase YOUR profits....you had better ask verrrrrry nicely....

2. JOHN had no intention of cancelling Vincent and then finding out how AOL could have served him better. His priority was "retain" Vincent as a customer. Naming the "Cancellation" Center the "Retention" Center represents the most blatent conflict of interest....it just gives me the creeps....

3. When dealing with a client who is adamant about cancelling their service, well then you, as a CSR, should just do that and move on to the next call. JOHN chose to berate, degrade, insult and flat out refuse Vincents request.

4. Whether Vincent was on his best behavior is completely irrelevant. If I pay YOU for a service....it's YOUR job to be on your best behavior, not mine.

I work for a computer store (repair, service, parts & networking) in Oregon and I hear horror stories about AOL nearly everyday from my customers. I am quite pleased to see the coverage of this story and I hope that something positive can come from this situation - even if it's just a really great laugh and something to pass on to friends! I can't believe that AOL will really take this offense seriously and would be surprised if any of their policies changed!

One of my employees worked for a credit card company in a local call center. He dealt with customers who wanted to put stops on automatic monthly payments by AOL. Months after the customer canceled their AOL accounts (yes they even had their cancelation number), they were still being charged for AOL services! AOL was still withdrawing automactic payments from the accounts even though the services were canceled. One customer was so tired of AOL, they just canceled their credit card!

My store never has and never will recommend AOL to our customers at all and we actually remove AOL's software from customer's computers quite frequently!

Such genius!! I wish I'd thought of recording the phone calls I made to AOL to cancel my account. I had been a cult member subscriber for more than 10 years. I actually paid by the hour and actually trained to be a room guide.
I upgraded to broadband and then AOL stopped supporting it in my area so I switched to another ISP and attempted to cancel AOL. I got a few months of free service but I never, ever logged on. So when I finally someone on the phone that spoke English and was able to cancel I was told I was going to be charged for the reminder of my contract. Funny thing, I didn't have a contact, nor did I ever agree to a contract. After much bitching on my part, I was told by the customer service rep that I'd only be charged $20. After maybe a dozen more phone calls, me faxing letters sent to me by AOL indicating that I did not have a contact, etc, I finally files claims with my credit card company, my local DAs office and a few federal agencies. I'm sure whining about a $20 bill seems minor but I'm convinced that AOL's practices are criminal and I applaud you for bringing it to light.

Crossposting a portion of the comment - because I do think I've made some good points that deserve to be reviewed, and I welcome the feedback on this blog.

“RJ, explain to me how the customer — or any citizen in the free world, for that matter — is legally bound to give a Customer Rep a “good enough” reason for canceling a service he’s paying for.”

I never stated he was legally bound to give a “good enough” reason. I said that he LIED about why he wanted to cancel the account. That alone makes me lose respect for the guy.

Let me point you out to this article:

http://www.cepro.com/news/editorial/13792.html

Not this part here “While the AOL rep definitely handled the situation poorly, he was right to ask questions. The cancellation process is a good opportunity for dealers to mine clients for information. Obviously, if they are canceling, the company didn’t serve them well enough. It’s the service rep’s responsibility to try to find out what the company could have done better.”

Instead, Vince decided to be rude to the rep by interrupting him and not get the matter resolved in a respectful manner. However, had Vince himself been more respectful to at least listen for a moment rather than bait the rep, I’m sure that you’ll agree that the call could have ended in an entirely different matter. This isn’t a matter of AOL being unwilling to cancel the account. It’s a matter of the rep taking the call responding negatively to Vinnie’s own rudeness during the call and now it’s being scrutinized. There is a fact being overlooked. If the rep hadn’t been rude to Vinnie there, there would be no story.

I am in no way condoing the way the the rep handled the call towards the end. He lost his composure and behaved poorly. I do handle some retention calls myself (though it’s not the primary function of my job). The stress is high - not just because a portion of the pay is dependent on keeping paying customers, but because of being berated constantly while trying to do the job. I’ve been working in the customer service industry for more than twelve years. More than ten years of that has been spent on the phone. Burnout happens, and I suspect “Jon” probably needed a vacation.

Unfortunately, the mindset of “the customer is always right” has grown into this creature that somehow gives the idea that there is no reason to be respectful to the customer service employee - there is often the mindset that the CSR is just a mindless stupid drone who has his head shoved up his ass and is there for the customer to walk all over.

It happens enough in retail as it is (I’ve worked that side too) and I’ve been crapped on by customers in that respect. It’s significantly worse on the phones. In the world of retail, there is typically face-to-face interaction. People have that human element in front of them and it seems to create a filter - where somebody who is upset will at least be willing to deal with the person in front of them (or at least keep in mind that they are talking to another human being.)

When working on the phones, I’ve heard people say things and behave in ways that they would NEVER do if they were face to face. Why? Because there is that lack of human contact. The connection is gone. They don’t have a fear of repercussion or feel a need to have regard for the other person’s feelings. That said, when it comes to the customer service industry, phone representatives have it the hardest. It’s probably the most stressful of all jobs in the customer service industry. I don’t know how many reading this have worked in a customer service job. Put yourself in the rep’s shoes for a moment. Whether you have done this type of job or not, the best way to get excellent customer service (even if cancelling an AOL account) is to be an excellent human being. This doesn’t mean being a doormat, it means being respectful and courteous in your exchange, inspite of how you may feel.

The question is, can we objectively look at this phone call and say that Vince was on his best behavior? If that is his best behavior, you certainly don’t want him to be the face leading the cause for better customer service.

Way to Go Vincent, I put you on my blog...I saw the CNN and WNBC videos and have to hand it to you-recording is the way to go. I wonder, if you had said you were recording the conversation, would it have gone on as long? Or do you think "Jon" would have just cancelled it? I hope businesses and corporations see this and respond better in the future. Just think, when you cancel a service, companies will be nicer to you! Would that be cool. But probably too wishful thinking. Keep up the appearances, you are doing great!

You can extend the story further. I signed up my internet company with AOL's advertising division to advertise my site in their directory. I haggled with the sales woman for about an hour before we hammered out the details (pricing, placement, length etc.). We agreed to bill it to my credit card said amount. Account is up and running, great! First problem, they mis-represented the amount of traffic I would receive, they promised XYZ and I got NOTHING! The ads was completely useless. To add insult to injury, when the credit card statement arrived, the charge was DOUBLE from what we agreed upon and contract signed! I called my sales rep to explain these issues and she said OK, we will fix the ad situation and credit your account and next month the billing should be OK. No fixes with the ad took place and next month's bill had the SAME overcharged price. I tried speaking with my rep one last time and again NO help. I then went to my credit card company to start disputing the charges and to have AOL stop billing me. I got all of my credits, and it took my credit card company roughly 8 moths to get AOL to finally stop billing me. AOL would charge me every month and my credit card right away issued the credit for me, again, this went on for 8 MONTHS!!! AOL cheats you ALL around!

I started laughing when I saw the story. I had to cancel my TIVO last month and the exact same run around happened. The script and tactics were very, very close. I didn’t even want to cancel, I love Tivo, but because of the old circumstances beyond my control, I had no choice…a point that was lost on the Tivo dweeb.

I agree heartily with David Pinero. John is not the problem. AOL's scapegoating of John makes me sick. John was doing what he was told to do to keep his job.

WAY TO GO!!!!!!! I am so glad you made some headway with AOL when it comes to canceling an account. I've tried the same thing a couple of times, my mom has and so has my sister. AOL started charging her 10 bucks a month for service after she canceled, well tried to cancel. Anyway, I am so pleased with your success. But watch out, because they may still charge you. Keep a close look at your bank account or credit/debit card for when and if they bill you. Take care and pat yourself on the back.
Maybe this will help the rest of us in the future, near future, very near future. LOL

Sorry Vincent, got your name wrong, Greg

John, thanks for bringing this to a head. I have used AOL twice in my lifetime and getting them to cancel was very similar to your experience except I wasn't as nice as you were. This is a really bad customer service on their part and I am amazed it still happens. I would give up the internet before I ever used their service again. Free AOL CD's go in the trash all the time. Regards, Greg Pinnell, MD

My friends younger siblings, years ago, have milked AOL for everything they could. Getting each other refferal checks even though it was the same last name and address, not to mention the THREE YEARS OF FREE SERVICE from attempting to cancel time after time after time. While they brag about it and find it funny, I doubt they were ever treated as rude as Vince here.

For all those defending the AOL rep, shut up! Don't blame the poor CSR at AOL for doing what the company told him to do!, blame the stupid CSR for his own actions. No company can ever force an employee to do something they don't want to do, everyone at every company has an option to leave! No job is worth your dignity!

Way back when, roommate would call up to cancel... just to get the free 2 months of service.. I think we did that for 3 years straight. Free Internet... FTW.

AOL sucks balls. When the AOL guy forces you to hear his final statement about canceling your account... I would have gotten the last word in and called him a fuckin asshole!
AOHELL

I heard about your story this AM on the Frank Show (radio station out of AZ) and remember my husband spending 30 minutes doing the same banter. Good for you. BTW, the Frank Show thought they were interviewing you this morning, set that up will ya, AZ and Reno was listening!!!!

I saw you on the news, good for you i hate AOL!!!

jack,
To call you a moron would be an insult to morons....

Anyone cancelling a service is under NO OBLIGATION WHATSOEVER to do anyhing but state once that he wishes to "cancel his account". Period.

John from AOL was condesending ( i'll try to keep my descriptives under three syllables for you...seeing how the best you can put forth is "prick" "pig", etc.) rude, aggressive, dismissive, threatening,...need i go on? He' crossed the line...got caught...and was fired (so they tell us.).

John is responsible for his words/attitudes. It was John's choice to cross the line and now he has to accept the consequences of his actions.

you know my husband's name is Jack as well....it's a common nickname for JOHN...hmmmmmmmmmm

I am going to post my AOL experience... I will add you to my blogroll, I hope you will return the favor. :)

I've been looking deeper into many of these comments and remain firm in my plea that Vincent stop cooperating with AOL by blaming John. John behaves no differently than any other AOL rep which points to in-company training and its culture. This is an opportunity to hold AOL and AOL alone accountable for the experience Vincent experienced.

John of AOL needs to come forward. I guarantee every one of you who are seathing with anger and a sense of final revenge that Vincent did this will feel TWICE that once we hear from John how AOL put him in this line of fire, making lives miserable for both he AND Vincent - and anyone else who's had to tolerate this tactic.

Vincent, PLEASE, reach out to John. He is NOT the problem even if it *is* true that he got rude. You were both under pressures that neither of you invented.

I for one made a post calling for John to step forward. If and when he does Vincent, I hope you will ally with him so that real damage to this insidious practice can be carried out - not the placated one AOL is trying to get you to swallow.

Your tape sounds very much like what I went through with AOL and after 1.5 hours on the phone and trading insults it didn't get cancelled. I had to contact the Texas State Attorney General's office who stated they had thousands of the same type of complaints already on file. Additionally, they told me there is a Class Action Suit against AOL from people just like all of us who were treated so badly. After the Att Gen sent them a letter I got the very same letter that you did....John is no long with the company it is against our policy...ya da ya da ya da.

I have a mentally handicaped friend. When he had trouble logging on to his AOL account he would go to the establish a new account to get logged in. If his signin was TEX he would open up a new account TEX1 then TEX2 etc. His AOL bill for the month was $320 charged to his SBC phone bill and if he doesnt pay he looses his phone service. I got on the phone with him to try to cancel all the accounts. To date (going on now for over a year) still not cancelled and AOL still sucking in the money. His name is Jackie George 817 922 9440

Finally someone got it on tape! AOL has been denying this for years. Now people know better.

I tried to cancel my account over two years ago because I kept getting dropped. (I dont use dial up any more) The first time I called I was immediatly disconnected. That pissed me off because I had been on hold for about 15 minutes. So I called back and after another 15 minutes I finally got someone and was given a confirmation code for my cancellation. I thought that was it for about three months but they had other plans. Three months later all AOHell broke loose.

I noticed a charge for nearly $80 on my Washington Mutual bank debit card when I called for my balance. So I called WaMu and asked where that charge came from and was shocked when they said it was AOL. Well, I called AOL and after the requisite long wait on hold was told that my account was "behind" and they had charged me the three months "I owed them."

Well, I gave the rep the date I closed the account and she said, "You never closed this account!" Well, I gave her the confirmation code and she said no such code existed. So, AOL's boy just made up a code to fool me. I told the woman again that the account had been closed and she wouldn't listen.

So I gave up on her and called WaMu back and said the charge was unauthorized and they reversed it. The WaMu rep said they get so many calls from angry AOL customers that they almost always side with their customer.

Well, after the charge was reversed (WaMu also blocked AOL from ever charging me again) I started getting demanding letters from AOL stating that they were going to take me to collections, blah blah blah ad nauseum. I ignored the letters and AOL FINALLY went away!

Keep in mind:

1) The first time you call to cancel you will be hung up on.
2) The guy on the phone will argue with you about closing.
3) You may be given a false and fraudulent confirmation code
4) AOL will continue to bill you after you close your account
5) If you reverse the fraudulent charges, you will get demanding letters

A friend of mine runs a large call center. Cust Svc Reps can get a some hefty bucks to stop attrition. That's one of the factors on rating their yearly performance. This is a standard practice at some phone companies, cell, credit card companies, you name it. They gotta keep the employees from jumping ship as well.

You are nothing more than a fat pig and prick. What you did, you did on purpose. Let the man do his job and you stop acting like a pig. You could have been nice to that person. Even if you had to explain it a few times.. You'll survivie. I hope this comes back to you 10 fold. As what you did was wrong.

I hope you enjoy your 5 mins of fame. Because that's all you should get. You are indeed a real ass hole. Maybe your Dad should have been around and thought you how to act like a human being.

Thank you thank you thank you.
I think your critics must be in cohoots with AOL or some of its employees. Pete T's comments do not make sense unless he's invested in aol or its employees. I don't think it's a Candian value to have customers over a barrell! Nobody can defend "John's" behavior, nor the behavior of the reps I called 2 years ago that gave me the same run around. Wish I'd done what you did. Personally, I think a class action lawsuit would teach them, (aol), as well as others like them, a lesson. I'm a big ol' liberal and I don't agree with some of your content but common outrage at indecent practices can bring people together. There is hope yet!!
Thanks!

That’s not Pete T. It’s John from AOL! Pete or John or whatever you want to call your self today. Your an unemployeed loser who got what he derserved. Hey John/Pete T. maybe you can call Donald Trump up and see if you can make an appearance on his show, "Your Fired"! LOL.

Ha! Ha! Ha! I'm so glad to find out after watching CNN that the PUNK and Loser who goes by the name of John was fired from AOL! Awsome news baby! Good luck John at the unemployement office!

THANK YOU for paving the way!

With no knowledge of your story I called AOL myself this morning to cancel my account. I was prepared to spend several minutes on the phone with the CSR trying to "save" my business. He did, to a point, but it was far easier than I expected. Now I know why! A friend sent me a link to your story. I'm sure this guy either a) thought that I was the press or b) knew about the guy getting fired and has decided not to press his luck. He did pose to me a few of the same questions you were asked (high speed/dsl, etc.) but he backed off when I firmly said I use g-mail and am very happy with it.

Vincent, don't listen to the people who say you did the wrong thing. You just saved people millions, and AOL scapegoated their employee, who will hopefully also sue them for wrongful termination.

I had EXACTLY the same thing happen to me. I was explicit with the agent 20 times that this was not a discussion but a termination of services. I told him repeatedly my account MUST BE cancelled and he must not talk to me about anything but the immediate cancellation of my account. After about 20 minutes of my numerous explicit requests being rebuffed, I said "Turn off my F-ing AOL now!" not so much out of anger but to get his attention. His reply? That I didn't have to get angry about it. The point is I did have to get angry about it. Then he said he would get it done and put me on hold. When he came back on he STILL tried to change my mind. Finally he said he would do it.

I called back and talked to a manager. I told the manager I knew it was typical and I would tell every one of my students--I teach computers in college. So at appropriate moments I have told hundreds of people. I also called talk radio and mentioned my story. Thank you Vincent for doing what needed to be done. You have helped reign in corporate America and saved consumers millions. As far as your detractors, what country do they want to live in? One where corporations refuse to let you stop doing business with them? Keep up the good work!

Hello,

Just saw your little turn-the-tables on CNN pipeline. Excellent!

I had some really horribly bad customer service at a hotel a couple of years ago, and I recorded a conversation with a little minicasette recorder hidden in my shoe, placed carefully under a table. A recorded bit of evidence is just sooooo useful!

Good luck in the future.

Regards,

Edward

Hey Vincent and Everyone Else this is so Awesome.

I have hated AOL since before AOL was AOL and the Early 90's as a kid I knew AOL WAS NOT THE INTERNET

USe any ISP Except AOL I can't stress that enough

on a funny note Here in Miam After KATRINA I used an AOL trial for liek a Week.

I can swear with a high degree of certainty that I spoke to teh same Rep "JON" he gave me a very hard time on cancelling my service I know it was him he was horrible and AOL is better now that hes gone.

AOL is a Nightmare company that illegally charges peoples Credit Card Accounts without their consent and Ruins their Credit reports and probably Sells their Private Identities

I had the same experience years ago when I tried to cancel an account. It's amazing that they are STILL doing this... And the most dispicable part is that they fired somone for what is clearly standard AOL practice... I think an investigative report team should uncover whether or not these people are coached into giving people a hard time... It is far to odd to think that all this is a coincidence...

Bastards... They got what they deserved. Millions of dollars in branding and advertising shot to hell by a lame customer service 'policy'....

Congratulations, Vincent--you've done a wonderful thing for American consumers. What a public-relations disaster for AOL!

Although I've managed to avoid AOL, I've faced the same thing with many other corporations. Credit card companies that make me jump through endless hoops before they'll cancel my accounts. Phone companies that keep charging me for cancelled accounts, despite my repeated pleas with service reps. Magazine subscriptions that won't cancel auto-renewals to my credit cards.

Unfortunately, Vincent, I don't think your heroic action will have much effect beyond AOL itself unless politicians start paying attention to an issue that infuriates American consumers. For those who are paying attention, let me suggest a plain and simple answer: Congress needs to pass a Consumer Bill of Rights that would force companies to drop all sales pitches and take immediate action once a customer says the words, "Cancel my account". Wouldn't it have been great if you could have threatened this AOL jerk with a hefty fine by reporting his behavior to the FTC?

typo, sorry:
Vincent, I hope [you] have contributed...

Hey man, way to go.

Don't listen to these pricks posting on here hating on you. They are either a) John! b) AOL employees who can't get commissions on "saved" accounts anymore c)punkass kids who have nothing better to do than complain about how you have "nothing better to do."

Nothing better? I can't think of anything better than exposing corporate fraud and bringing AOL to it's knees! We should all applaud you! This isn't about 15 minutes of fame - it's about a lifetime of justice.

Keep it up, man. Say "hi" to the Bronx for me!

Hi. I just saw a bit about you and your AOL troubles on a clip off of cnn.com. This is funny because just yesterday (not knowing any of this problem you have had) I sat on hold for nearly 20-minutes, after being disconnected once, while trying to cancel my AOL of which I never use either. I was put through a series of automated response ques when I was then put on hold after stating that my account was billed through my phone company bill. Then on hold for 20 minutes, my phone actually made awful loud and weird noises and then disconnected itself. Not saying that AOL could hoook into my phone line and cause such a thing. But it is weird. Anyways, I will be back at the cencellation process this afternoon.
P.S. I had a car dealership service shop manager ask me to discuss 'the issue I was having' with my father first and then call him back! I was 23 years old at the time, I am a younger sounding female, but seriously! Good for me in that it was their fault what was wrong with my car and I was currently working for the State Bar Association at the time ... so out of the woodwork I had attorney's calling this company to set it straight. Good for you that this was taken care of and Thank you for bringing it out in the open!

A couple of years ago I called AOL to cancel my account because I had just gotten broadband through my cable company. I didn't have any problems getting the account cancelled, or at least I didn't think so. 9 months later I looked at my credit card bill and saw a payment to AOL. Once I started digging into it, I realized that they had started billing me again 6 months earlier. Apparently, my son logged into AOL using our old account name, and it immediately reactivated the account. When I called AOL, they said that I had "cancelled", but hadn't "terminated" the account. If only cancelled, the account is reactivated when someone logs back in. When I called them back and they explained the difference between cancelled and terminated, I threw a fit and threatened to sue, so they refunded 3 months worth of payments to keep my quiet. AOL sucks!

Way to go Vincent! The call you recorded was almost identical to a conversation I had with a Sprint PCS representative when I tried to cancel my wireless account. My responses were similar to yours and the rep had the audacity to ask me why I was being rude. I simply stated that I had already set up a wireless account with a different provider, and the only way she could “help” was by closing my account. But what really upsets me about the whole thing is that Sprint charged me for the entire next billing cycle. Funny how they are able to prorate your first bill, but coming up with a way to prorate your last bill totally eludes them. I used their service for over seven years, but I will never make that mistake again.

I closed my account at the beginning of the month. So, I was charged for three more weeks of service I didn't use. Apparently, this is happening to consumers that do business with a variety of companies. Perhaps CNN should investigate how many millions of dollars companies are making on these services they are not providing once the accounts are closed.

Thank you so much for standing up for us little guys. When I cancelled my AOL several years ago, it took about 30 minutes to convince the jerk that I meant business!!! You are my hero!!

In an earlier version of AOL, if you wanted to stop pop-up ads -- AOL's OWN pop-up ads, mind you -- you really had to hunt for the proper screen and then find the right option button. It was INTENTIONALLY DIFFICULT to achieve a turn-off of the ads. Get this, *the button/area for turning off the ads was GRAY (not black) -- to look like you couldn't turn it off.* I swear to God. This could be used as evidence in court regarding AOL's shady practices. The grayed-out button is of a piece with putting people on hold and having to go through a gauntlet of hoops and harassment to cancel. Using short-term (and shallow) thinking, they sacrifice customer satisfaction for a short-term buck -- screwing up the long-term and helping sully their reputation and bring down their own company.

AOL should be EARNING the business of customers, not ill-begetting it by....

tricking
hassling
manipulating
controlling
deceiving
exploiting.

Customer retention, in any company, should occur by having a product or service that has value that exceeds the money being paid for it. Anything else is...

tricking
hassling
manipulating
controlling
deceiving
exploiting.

AOL is strikingly arrogant in their use of these methods, but they are not the only company who does so. Any company that makes it "hard to cancel" is engaging in one of those tactics. It's your money, if you wish to cancel, that's your right, and any decent company will respect that.

I hope this leads to the abolishment of "customer retention departments." Customer retention should come from having quality products and services, and if the product or service no longer meets a customer's needs, so be it. I hope this leads to the abolishment of the following as well:

(1) any long-term contract that knowingly is going to screw the customer
(2) "introductory rates" that are essentially a deception -- the customer still pays tons in the end
(3) upselling
(4) upselling or any other selling or marketing that occurs when people call the company for tech support or any other reason
(5) commissions and commission-based sales
(6) tipping and any other hidden costs
(7) "free" but "shipping and handling" costs money
(8) grocery store bullsh** "club cards"
(9) prices that end in "99"
(10) gasoline prices that end in 9/10 of a penny
(11) any other marketing intended to *MANIPULATE* (which many people still accept because it's as prevalent as the air we breathe)

You might ask, what should business do instead? How about: Straightforward pricing, straightforward communications, straightforward transactions. Work with customers in mutual, win-win relationships. You *earn* business and retention of customers. The quality of your product or service, the ability of that product or service to meet a need or want, for a fair price, is what "sells." Marketing comes from customer satisfaction (and positive, earned word of mouth).

Vincent, I hope have contributed to the heralding of a new era in American (if not international) business. You've done great work. Thank you again. I agree that you are a hero.

It’s frustrating to hear the customer service rep being stubborn like that, but this behavior is coming from AOL management. It’s either customer service reps are getting incentives for keeping people with AOL, or management is telling them to behave like that. I’m actually very surprised that CNN even did anything about it. I guess every once in a while CNN has to “break” a story like this so people forget about all the other more serious things that went unreported.

Congrads Vince, you’re CNN’s “hard hitting news” poster boy for this month.

As with many others before me and many others after me, I too experienced the tenacity of AOL service reps while attempting to cancel my account - but not one rep, FIVE. Not only in the US but in India where it all began. Pauline (not her real name) cancelled my account and gave me a cancellation number. What she didn't ask me and what I was not aware of is VERY IMPORTANT. Unless you tell them to cancel every service and every screen name associated with your user name, you will continue to get billed and they consider that justifiable because, HEY, you didn't ask. I finally got the attorney general involved and after five months and a lot of EXCEDRIN, it went away. It wasn't the $23.90 it was the aggravation these people caused me. Countless hours of arguing with someone halfway around the globe. AAARRRRGGGGHHHHHH

Vincent, you're the man! Kudos.

A few years back someone stole my credit card information and the only thing they did was to set up two AOL accounts under my name billed to this account. After I received these charges, I contacted AOL. I was told that these accounts had been flagged as spam accounts. I vaguely remember having to talk to their fraud department, but eventually over a period of a few days, I was told to call customer service to have these accounts cancelled. I got the same crap...."Why do you want to cancel your account....yadda....yadda". It took forever to get the person to understand that I never opened an account.

My issues with AOL after I went through the time to cancell I found out it was still active and I had to call again to CXL .

Oh man I jumped out of my chair when I watched the CNN pipeline report on your AOL experience. Just a couple weeks ago I attempted to cancel my account for the same reason. I don't use it, I don't need it and I just want to cancel it. After three different phone calls to AOL finally getting someone to provide the correct CSR phone number (the purposely do not post the number on their website) for account cancellation, I got it cancelled. Even then I had to repeat my request to cancel so many times I can't even count them. They recently closed the call center in our town laying off hundreds. I hope they go out of business soon. At least I would not longer receive the stupid CD Roms in the mail.

Vincent are you only interested in AOL stories?? I have a Sports Illustrated cancellation story. My husband asked me to cancel his subscription to SI. Of course the call started off automated, but then the strangest thing ever happened- the automated "receptionist" hung up on me?!? It happened so quickly that I wasn't quite sure what the deal was, so I called back. After working my way through the menu options again I made it back to the "cancel" menu and the voice states, "We're sorry, all of our representatives are busy now, please call at a later time." And *click* it hung up on me again! I couldn't believe it hung up on me. Normally an automated system would just put me on hold (forever) until a representative was available.
Well, I decided to wait a couple of hours and try back. Again, same scenario. So I decided to wait until 11 PM on a weekday when I was sure their call volume would be low. Even still I couldn't get through and was hung up on again. After giving it some thought, I figured out a work around. In the automated menu options at the beginning of the call, it asked that I press 1 on my phone if I wanted to SUBSCRIBE. So this time I decide to press 1- I went STRAIGHT THROUGH to a LIVE customer service rep, there was absolutely no wait at all. I was furious and the first thing I asked was to speak to a supervisor.
I can't believe this kind of practice is going on??? Is this legal? This was so amazing to me because it wasn’t an individual that decide to take customer service issues to a new low. This was the COMPANY that made an official decision to use this kind of tactic!

YOU ROCK. SCREW AOL, THEY ARE SO HARD TO CANCEL. I MEAN HOW HARD IS IT TO PUT A CANCEL NOW BUTTON THEIR SERVICE.

AOL is not the only one, but they are one of the worst.

And dont even pay attention to that AOL loser who is posting shit.

Your my hero.

THANK YOU, Vince for making your experience with AOL public! I has a very similar experience about 2 months ago. I had signed on to AOL's free month of dial-up service as a temporary means to internet access when my DSL server was down for half a day. I take on-line classes, and I needed access to some of the course material. Lo and behold, my credit card is charged a month later for a $29.95 fee. I was mentally kicking myself for forgetting to cancel the service before I could be charged, but that feeling lasted about 2 seconds when I started getting major push-back from the so-called CSR at AOL. I, too, had to repeatedly state 'CANCEL MY ACCOUNT". I used to work as a 911 call receiver and dispatcher, so I know how to handle difficult jerks. Since I assume AOL records it's customer calls, I stated clearly what I expected from the CSR -a follow up letter confirming the cancellation. Imagine my surprise when I actually received said letter within two weeks. However, based on what I've read so far of others' experiences, I will continue to check my credit card account to make sure AOL doesn't start charging me again for a service I don't use.

I had a similar (though not so hostile) experience when I cancelled my account back in 2002 or so. (AOL wanted me to keep it, free of charge, for several months--probably just to keep up their subscription numbers.)

I emailed the Washington Post and told them the subscription figures they were attributing to AOL were probably inflated because of such shenanigans. They didn't follow up on the story--too bad for them. Nice work.

Mmm, 5 minutes of fame sure tastes good, doesn't it?

AOL is the biggest joke on the internet.
Word to the wise - dump AOL and dump their stock too!

John,

I am so glad to see that you made this increadible scam public. My father has alzheimer's and I have been cancelling his account at AOL for over 3 years now...his account is still being charged. I can't cancel his credit card because the bank won't recognize our joint authority as trustees (that's a whole other scam) and AOL won't do what they have told me countless times that they would do...cancel his account. So here we are, paying for a service that no one is using. My father doesn't even remember how to use the computer. I keep telling them to check access to his account and they will see that it probably has a million junk emails in it and it has not been used. I just wish that someone with higher power could hold them accountable for stealing from so many people. It scares me to think of how many elderly people who are on limited incomes are being scammed. You would think someone would hold this company accountable! Well, I'm sure you've heard a million stories like this. Just want to say thanks for taking the time to record that call and get the word out. Have a nice AOL-free day!

I'm so happy that AOL is finally getting the recognition they deserve. When my 84 year old father died three years ago, it was several months before I worked through all the estate stuff and got down to tiny details like cancelling his AOL account. AND, I also wanted a refund for the 4 months after his death the account wasn't used. After literally days calling various "customer service" (sic!) people, I finally ended up faxing several top execs at Time Warner a note beginning with the phrase "You bastards!" A secretary of one of the execs called, and said they were sorry and a refund would be issued. When the refund came, it came with a non-apologetic letter explaining that although they didn't owe me a refund under their "terms of service," they were making an exception in my case. So they even managed to infuriate me while refunding my money!

I had a similar experience with the SAME guy!!!! He just wouldn't take no for an answer, and I put him on speaker phone so that others could hear what a jerk this guy was. Wish I had taped him myself, as it was rather funny how pathetic this guy, but soon I got to the point where I wished I could punch him right through the phone. After almost 15 minutes of his stalling techniques he finally gave in and cx'ed my account, but he wasn't done yet--he tried to give me another 3 months free just because I was such a "great customer". I told him I had DSL with another provider and no longer needed his lousy dialup service. He wasn't as insulting with me as with you, but I felt after awhile like I was speaking a foreign language.

What a bunch of creeps. AOL and Jiffy Lube management and employees have a special place in hell waiting for them.

AOL is a waste of time and money but you're cute! Whoof whoof!

I just saw your piece on CNN and thought I would share my own very similar experience with AOL.

Alabama Gubernatorial Candidate meets AOL Hell

In Liberty,
Loretta Nall
Vote Nall Y'all...It's Just Common Sense

You are my Bloody HERO! The same thing happened to me TWICE! Why didn't I think of tape recording it myself?!! I have rarley been so livid as the times when I've spent 20 minutes trying to cancell my AOL account! It still turns up my blood pressure just thinking about it.

I am another of the frustrated 'former' AOL users. I called to cancel my account because I rarely use the service any longer. The company used to have a 'Limited Usage' pricing of $2.95 a month. They have discontinued that option so I called to cancel.
First off, I get a heavily accented operator thinking 'Another company moved the call center out of the U.S.'
I asked and yes, the operator admitted that she was not in the United States.
I aqsk to cancel my account and the rep asks for my security answer. I give her the answer, then she wants the entire credit card account number that I originally used to pay for the service.
I refuse to tell her anything but the last 4 digits of the card number. She claims they cannot close the account unless I give the entire number.
This goes on for a few minutes where I am refusing to give the number and she is scrolling thru her screen looking for appropriate replies and 3 different times repeats the same request for the numbers using different phrases.
Then she asks me to hold so that she could consult with a supervisor.
Supervisor says they will give me 2 FREE MONTHS! of service if I will give them that card number so that they can cacel my account??!??
I said ;'I am hanging up now' and as I am hanging up I hear the rep calling me 'Sir!, Sir Please!'
>>>I then go online to the BILLING DEPARTMENT. 3 times i tried to connect to the cancel option. 3 times the page came back 404 PAGE NOT FOUND.
>>>later that day i get an email from AOL Account Help saying that not only do I owe them the monthly fee but also an extra $10.00 for 'other access'
>>>I reply to the email with the statement 'cancel my account' and get a reply that i have to change my pricing or call the toll-free number and speak to a rep.
>>>This try to cancel my account took at least 45 minutes of time and my account still has not been cancelled.
>>>

Hi,
I'm doing a story on customer service and would like to include a clip of the call. Can I lift it from your site? I'd just use a clip and of course credit you.

Please email me and let me know.

Hagit Limor
wcpo.com

From PC World:

N.Y. Attorney General Prods AOL on Cancellation Policies

Changes will benefit all AOL subscribers.

Juan Carlos Perez, IDG News Service
Wednesday, August 24, 2005


It will be easier for America Online subscribers to cancel their service thanks to an agreement between the company and the office of New York Attorney General Eliot Spitzer, Spitzer's office announced Wednesday in a statement.

After receiving about 300 complaints from consumers who had experienced trouble getting AOL to cancel their subscriptions, Spitzer's office began an inquiry into the matter. It found AOL had a system to reward customer service representatives who managed to dissuade people who called to cancel their subscriptions.

"In many instances, such retention was done against subscribers' wishes, or without their consent," the statement reads.


Customer Service Issues
Customer service representatives were expected to dissuade a minimum percentage of callers from canceling, and were rewarded with bonuses if a certain percentage of subscribers declined to cancel, according to Spitzer's office.

"These bonuses, and the minimum 'save' rates accompanying them, had the effect of employees not honoring cancellations, or otherwise making cancellation unduly difficult for consumers," the statement reads.

"We're pleased to have reached this agreement with the State of New York," said AOL spokesman Nicholas Graham in an interview.

The agreement is in the form of a legally binding document called an assurance of discontinuance, Graham said. Spitzer's office agrees not to take further actions against AOL on this matter, as long as the company complies with certain requirements, he said.

According to Spitzer's office, these conditions include that AOL will not require customer service representatives to dissuade a minimum number of subscribers from canceling in order to earn a bonus, and will record all service cancellation requests and verify actions through a third-party monitor.

The agreement also requires AOL to give refunds to all New York customers who claim to have been harmed by the improper cancellation practices in question. In addition, AOL is required to pay $1.25 million to the state.

AOL is in the process of making the necessary changes to comply with the requirements and expects to be fully compliant by June 2006, Graham said.

Although the changes are being implemented as a result of the review by Spitzer's office on behalf of New York customers, the modifications will apply to and benefit all AOL members, Graham said.

Spitzer's office began its review in February 2004, and AOL cooperated fully with it, Graham said. The Attorney General's office never took the step of filing a lawsuit against AOL, he said.

Just to chime in....LOVED your story. I had a very similar experience abour 4-5 years ago. Thanks for getting this practice out in the open.

I encountered the exact same kind of stone walling in trying to cancel my account last fall. I just spoke to one of my coworkers and she did as well. I think AOL cancellation phone calls normally last at least 30 minutes because of this thing. And it was AOL's policy to not let users cancel without putting up a fight but they were sued months ago and lost that lawsuit. Clearly, nothing has changed as seen from your phone call and mine, both coming after that lawsuit. I'd really like to hear from someone who tries to cancel today and get their account if the experience is any different.

You know, even after you get through all the crap to cancel your account, they STILL make it hard?

I tried cancelling my account in, I think, February. I NEVER used it. I told the CSR that, and he kept stonewalling, doing the same things described on CNN.

So, I had to pull out the sob story. I told him I was a Katrina victim, and simply couldn't afford it anymore and that I was having problems with my insurance company, and I started crying.

OK, technically, I am a Katrina victim -- I live 150 miles north of the Gulf Coast, and it was still a Cat 1 when it came through my area, and I got a tree in my dining room. I did have a few tiny issues with my insurance company. But by February, everything was more than resolved.

I never used Katrina damages for ANYTHING -- didn't go to the Red Cross, FEMA, anyone -- the only time i had to use that situation was to get my damned internet account cancelled! Yes, I felt cheap and evil, but, well, AOL started it.

Anyway, about 2 weeks after the phone call (during which my CSR sympathetically described to me how AOL services might help me in my time of distress) I got a letter from AOL -- THANKING me for "reaffirming" my commitment to them and for agreeing to continue my service! At the bottom of the letter, in tiny letters, was a note saying that if this agreement was in error, to fill out the other side, with ALL this info (I barely even used the service -- I had NO CLUE what my screen name was) and had to fax it in to a number in FLorida, where it would take 14 days to process, during which time I would still be charged!

AARRRRGGGGHHHHH!!!!

Thank goodness, I am now free of that company. I swear, if they end up being the ONLY internet company left one day, I will resort to smoke signals as a communitcation method before going back to them.

I can't believe I had to use the hurricane -- I am ashamed of myself, but desperate times ....

It took me 4 phone calls before I finally got them to cancel my account. My experience was so similar to the others I have read about and seen on CNN. I was told I was being rude when I just kept repeating 'please cancel my account'.

I had the same experience cancelling my Mom's account. She was sick and never used it and I tried to cancel, 20 minutes later they wanted to talk to her. I asked them to "CANCEL THE ACCOUNT!". Finally, finally, finally they cancelled it.

I think that AOL has a policy to not let users cancel without a huge fight. If so, then John is just a scapegoat and was just doing his job. It would be nice to followup in a month or so and see if they revert back to their old tactics. I'm sure they will...I had the same problem with XDrive, and AOL company. I HAD to call them to cancel thought I could signup via web. Cancelleing was a laborious, 20 minute torture.
Thanks for getting this out.

Jerry

I just watched the segment on CNN about your problem with AOL. It's sad how a bad customer service representative makes the national news, yet the hard working honest and accomodating ones like myself get a bad reputation. I currently work in a mall and I am shocked at the level of customer service that I see in other stores and when I call businesses. I am trained to try to save a sale (especially when someone is returning an item,) But I couldn't believe the lack of understanding on the part of "John." I'm so glad you recorded that for all to hear. I hope that every large corporation and their upper mangement will learn from this to avoid negative publicity.

All the best with the website.

Hey, Vinny...thanks for the help, man! I have also heard stories like these for some time now. But, I called AOL 2 days ago to cancel my account, and, while they tried to sell me on their service, cancelled the account in about 5 minutes. Excellent!

Hey Vinny! Long time old friend. It is funny how things work. I happened to hear from a friend that she saw you on the news and I was like "Hey I know that guy from my early days of blogging." Was really cool reading all about it and seeing the clips! Congratuations hon! Take care of yourself and drop me a line sometime. SwtGAHunnyB of the old Hunny-Hive.

Just now listening to the conversation on 79.9FM WGRD, Free Beer and Hotwings show. Fantastic :-)

Vincent,
We'd love to do a morning show interview with you. Please contact me. Thank you.

js-indianapolis: "How is this newsworthy?"

A corporate practice of customer stonewalling (and theft) that has potentially affected millions of ordinary Americans is, by definition, newsworthy. People will be interested because just about every American household has a computer and AOL has tens of millions of customers.

If it were an isolated incident and un-newsworthy, the story would not have caught on worldwide.

AOL still at it! Amazing. Check out my 2003 response to their perpetually sleazy business practices: http://www.tomdukich.com/galvanized.html and http://www.tomdukich.com/cnn.html.

Just saw you on Fox and Friends. Great job of catching AOL in the act of intimidation when you try to exit their service. While I haven't anything as bad as your recent experience I do believe that it is AOL policy and techniques to find some way to keep you receiving their service. Great job of reporting to the world of AOL's practice.

I cannot believe some one actually TAPED AOL doing this to them! Brilliant! The same thing happened to me 2 years ago! While I was in the midst of fighting with the guy about cancelling my account, I had stopped for a second in disbelief that I could NOT manage to cancel my acount and the guy hung up on me! I was so furious I did not even call back that day. I waited two days and then called again- only to get the same thing all over again with some one else! This time I said, "Never mind!" and hung up. The next time about three days later I called again and cut off the guy that answered and told him NOT to tell me anything exepct "OK" because I wanted to cancel my account and this was the THIRD time I had tried and if they refused again, I would sue them for harassment for crying out loud! He was quiet for a second and finally said, "OK." I just hung up. Do you know two months later I started geting bills again?????!!!!! Jeez!!!!!!!!!! These people are crazy! NEVER AGAIN AOL!!!

Wow, thats amazing man ....It seems like a normal day at Sprint-Nextel Retention... its not [that] bad tho....

Nice job on Fox News. Very professional. However, how IN THE HELL is this newsworthy?

I'm not hating, at all. I'm praising you, brother! The topics today were:

1) Saddam and WMD that might have killed thousands
2) AOL sucks
3) Terrorists might kill us all

Serious, that's the exact order of stories. Either America has A.D.D., or you're Rupert Murdoch's son. Which is it?

I'm going to make some phone calls now (any "customer service" will do), and see if I can't get on the NBC nightly news.

That's not Pete T. It's John from AOL!

Geez, Vinny. I don't stop by for a few weeks and you've gone national! I was over at worldnetdaily.com and saw an article about AOL, and there you were!

Too funny. Give 'em hell!

Hey man, don't let anyone say to you that you were wrong. I'm glad that someone finally kicked AOL in the nuts and gave them a pain that they wont soon forget. As for the rest of us, we need to learn a lesson from him. What we aught to do is to start taping our conversations with customer reps from all of the companies we do business with and share them around when we get pissed off. Let the stuffed shirts as the top feel the heat.

Vincent: I'm disheartened to read the insults a few have left here for you. You are helping expose a MAJOR SOCIAL ILL. You are a HERO!!!

And yes, some health clubs are awful, too, about "not cancelling." Clark Howard (also a hero) talks about how some companies like nothing better than for people to go on automatic payment plans and "forget about them" -- or be too weak-willed to contest...or not know how to contest. Awful!!!! I hope a brighter light gets shown on these practices as well.

Re that "swing at a major media corp." -- hurray!!! I, too, giggle -- with long-denied satisfaction. (Note also, if you don't know already, that AOL was listed as the #1 worst tech product ever, about 3 weeks ago. I'm not sure of the source, but it was significant -- PC Magazine perhaps?)

Love the news clip I just saw on the internet. I can relate to what you went through. It took me a good 30 minutes to cancel my account. I was questioned about why I was canceling. I flat out told them I bought DSL and they still tried to convince me to keep the 20-some dollar-a-month dial-up service. Crazy! I was transfered several times and the conversation would repeat itself. Finally they got rid of my service, but still told me I could use my screen name on aol.com for free. They need to learn to let go. Thanks for recording this. Hopefully others won't go through the same things we have.

I saw your experience and I can appreciate it greatly. Took my over 30 minutes, a manager, and a threat to file with the better business bureau and the states attorney general to get something done. They kept asking me why and offering me free time and months and I kept sayin you didn't do this for me as the great customer you say I am so why would I want it now. After 10 minutes they finally transferred me to a manager to finalize everything. When she came on she started it all over again. I finally threatened to go to the better business bureau and then threatened to file a complaint with the state attorney general office because they refused to cancel me. I told them this is why you've had 6 million people cancel their accounts over the last few years, but they just don't listen. Finally after 25 minutes they agreed and it took another 5 or so to get everything done. I have a friend who works for AOL and they even say there are big issues. It should never take that long to cancel anything. And they wonder why people are dropping them left and right.

1. Please post the phone number(s) for cancelling AOL (prominently and repeatedly, if possible).
2. I'm encouraging even harder the friend I have who still uses AOL to quit; I've referred him to this story.
3. It's not the case that this problem with AOL has been unknown. Clark Howard, for one, has reported it. But Vincent's phone call is a tipping point.
4. Vincent: You rock!!!!
5. I hope the whole world -- not just AOL -- learns from this (just as we learned from the Enron scandal). I'm looking for a kinder, gentler, less sleazy, less scammy, less screw-the-customer world.
6. This is history in the making.
7. I hope a journalist is working on the book about the downfall of AOL.
8. Ditto re a video documentarian.
9. Former and soon-to-be former employees can provide mountains and mountains of evidence.
10. I am foreseeing en masse whistle-blowing on "customer retention" practices at AOL (if not also at other concerns).
11. It's about time.
12. Once again, thank you Vincent!!!!!

Similar thing happened to me couple of years ago. Haven't been that mad since, until I was recently held hostage by the BANK OF AMERICA automated system. When they send a new debit or credit card that you can't use without calling to "activate" your account. Then, while they are "verifying" your information, they try to sell you, in 3 long-winded speeches, their programs. You can't escape by pressing "0" or any button, because at the end of each one, they ask you to press "1" if you want to hear more. If you don't press "1", instead of sending you back to your original task, they PITCH THE SAME PRODUCT TO YOU because they can't believe you didn't press "1"! I hung up in the middle of the third pitch, called them to complain and make sure my card was activated, and they couldn't have cared less that I was a frustrated, angry customer! I also complained to Missouri's Attorney General, but haven't heard anything yet. But this, and the outrageous AOL experience, is going to continue unless more people get pissed off and complain to Congress.

Shame that the guy you talked to got fired and the assholes who trained him and the rest of AOL Customer Service probably got bonuses. Hmm... I wonder if he got a package to go away quietly...maybe Matt Lauer should interview him too.

As a bank teller, I frequently have customers complaining that AOL continues to take money out of there accounts even after they have closed AOL account. This story validates their complaints. (I also get that complaint about 24 Hour Fitness and Bally's...Hmm....Another news story perhaps?)

I caught your story on Canada AM this morning, and I had to laugh (along with the anchors) at how asenine this John guy was. I mean, I can understand maybe a little outreach on their behalf as you try to cancel, but this??! It takes a special kind of idiot to pull this kind of crap (or according to "AOL: Den of Thieves" up above, a special kind of corporation...). Couldn't believe what I was hearing. I didn't think that in this day and age of supposed "customer appreciation", this would happen.

I can only think of one remotely similar experience I had. A few years ago I wanted to cancel my account with TD Canada Trust and switch to RBC. So I went to TD and asked to close my account. Of course, the rep asked me why, and offered a few points on how they might be a better fit than RBC. But, thankfully, I only had to decline the offer once. Within ten minutes of walking in I had my balance in cash and left.

Congratulations on getting the word out about this. I know it might not have been your original goal to make international headlines, but by the sounds of it, AOL has gotten away with these ridiculous schemes for too long. Time to sell your Time Warner stock...

AOL has been in trouble for years with the California Attorney General because of strong arm tactics like you (and I years ago) experienced. the AGs office handled my complaint with AOL and the billing finally stopped. Apparently though, theyre not in enough trouble to actually stop their unlawful activities!

Love the Aol thing! At last someone got them on this! I can't believe they've been going strong on this as much as 5 years later my ordeal! I cancelled and got rid of my computer. I had a condition which affected my eyes, so I got rid of it. I was being very careful with my checks since my signt was impaired, but about 7 months later, I learned I was going to be overdrawn! The amount was suspicious, so I asked the bank if it was AOL. Yup! I called AOL AGAIN and mentioned I had cancelled about 8 months before. He was extremely rude, and I told him I had a right to find out why they'd been withdrawing money out of my account for 7 months without permission. It would seem that they ask if you would like a free month of service should you decide to return; you answer yes. They take it as you're coming back, they give you one free month, and they start billing again! I told him that is fraud. "You tried 3 times to set up your account, so that's like three accounts and that's illegal, lady. You want to tallk fraud!" I asked for his supervisor. The superviisor did little to placate me. My bank managed to get 4 months back; the other 3 were on me. The bottom line is that, as much as I love the internet, if AOL were the only choice, I wouldn't handle it. I'm so glad that someone caught them! Thank you!

THANK YOU Vincent. You're awesome. I heard the entire conversation on the John and Jeff radio show, June 21, 2006.

Hey Pete T. and the other idiot that wont provide his name, how many months of free aol did you get to post this bullshit up? To the idiot that wont provide his name...AOL has been taken to court for this exact type of crap that John pulled, according to the State Attorney General they dont have the right to make cancelling this difficult. Get a life you losers...

As part of my job I see about 8 hours worth of news a day an I gotta say this is good use of the airwaves. Believe it or not PR disasters are the number one way to get giant companies to improve how they operate and how they treat customers. They put millions every year into developing their precious "brand", and one story like this can do irreparable damage to said brand. I don't know, one guy with a tape recorder and a blog taking a major swing at a huge media corp., it makes me giggle.

happy to see a story like this coming out in the big news !
AOL just don't give a fuck about theirs customers... screws them ! :)

You're a meathead! And anybody that thinks that was the right thing to do you're an IDIOT! What John would have done was given your fat ass free months. But no you had to record the call. Your lucky AOL doesn't sue your ignorant ass. You're a low life thirty year old man that still lives with his father. You should experience what people like him experience from dicks like you everyday. I would like to see you deal with that everyday!

hey Pete T - you're an idiot. I'd call you "obtuse" but I doubt you own a dictionary.

What's wrong with America is that Corporations like AOL think they have the right to screw the "little guy".

I'm grateful that Vincent taped this conversation.

As for John getting fired...He totally deserved it! Vincent didn't get John fired....John is the ONLY one responsible for that. JOHN is responsible for the way he conducts himself and no one else.

hey Pete T - you're an idiot. I'd call you "obtuse" but I doubt you own a dictionary.

What's wrong with America is that Corporations like AOL think they have the right to screw the "little guy".

I'm grateful that vincent taped this conversation.

As for John getting fired. He totally deserved it!

http://www.canada.com/globaltv/national/story.html?id=b126d5d2-7eb9-4898-b2a0-89da790f67ad

That's some entertaining stuff Vinny...

"GLobal National in Canada just aired the segment (courtesy of NBC). I cannot believe these people. They’re like a cult or something!"

I saw it too , thats why I'm responding to this dick. If by a Cult you mean brainwashed by this dick... then your correct, this is insane behavior and shows why the American society is in the shape it is in.

You are an such an immature prick. You didn't like AOL. So.. you decided to SETUP a situation where you cancel you account , so that you could make a name for yourself and get buddy Fired from his job.
OH SHIT!!!! YOUR THE MAN, THAT IS THE COOLEST THING THAT I HAVE EVER HEARD ANYONE DO!!!! Errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr..... How about this.

You had nothin else better to do with your life , so you thought. "I know , how can I stir shit up , and do something that is totally amusing and juvenille. I got it, I will cancel my AOL account even though I can sit through this and stomach it. Then when he gets on the phone , I will badger the shit out of him because hell, He can't do anything to me. It's over the phone."

You are a fat piece of shit , that guess what , you're having your 15 minutes of fame now. Time will be up by this time next Thursday, and you will realize what type of human being you really are. I still don't understand how you could get that guy fired, just because you wanted to amuse yourself , and the readers of your blog.

REAL Responsible and mature buddy. Keep on , Keepin on I guess.

Don't bitch the next time you get a complaint at Burger King when they tell you that you forgot to add something to the order pal.

Unbelievable....

GLobal National in Canada just aired the segment (courtesy of NBC). I cannot believe these people. They're like a cult or something!

Surfing KC -- "We were trying to qualify for our first home loan (which we got) at the time and did not want to take any chances."

I said this on another thread but it bears repeating because AOL tries to intimidate people by abusing their ability to put a black mark on your credit rating: Now that it's becoming common knowledge that AOL is a crooked company that steals and extorts money from people, I think a bad credit report from them is going to be ignored by good companies.

If you are otherwise credit-worthy, I doubt people will put much stock in what AOL says on a credit report. You can easily prove that they are in the wrong if you need to -- like when you're trying to get a loan.

I heard your piece with John and Ken today on KFI....I'm still infuriated!!!
That experience is just beyond belief! What a clear revelation of the state of business in the modern world. What the hell happened to, "The customer is always right"??? Jeeeeeeez...
Reminds me of an experience I had when I received a call through a credit card account trying to sell me an entertainment package or some such thing that I could use free for the first 30 days and then pay monthly through the account or cancel if I didn't want it. The representative read the entire spiel ignoring my negative responses to every question she asked. She just continued to speak over me non-stop! I was practically yelling at her that I didn't want the damn thing but it was to no avail. She proceeded to tell me that I would be receiving my packet in the mail and she hung up on me. Needless to say, I was livid.

I had a similar experience with the aforementioned Jon I am still trying to cancel my account. Any suggestions?

Vincent -- many blogs besides yours have established -- with hundreds of eerily similar testimonials -- that AOL trains its CSRs to make it all but impossible to cancel your account on the first try. Have you reconsidered your opinion that AOL's apology was sincere? (They still do it every day! A CNBC reporter tried it to see if your experience was an aberration and they did it to him!)

According to AOL's training, John should get a bonus. Even if they contract out the Customer Service portion of their business, they surely have actual knowledge (judging from the lawsuits alone) that they have encouraged a culture of theft and bad faith on their clientele.

Amen, good for you doing this. A thought which might take off: create a watchdog list on your blog of the companies who practice this cancellation-arguing policy, so the web community knows which companies to avoid. Plus other companies would change their practices to avoid being put on such a list.
It's so great how they make it incredibly easy to join, but 1000x harder to leave!!!!

On your next appearance, you might want to tell them my story of trying to cancel my late mother's account. The woman hadn't used the service in probably two years. A week or two after she passed away, I tried to cancel the service. First, they wouldn't let me cancel the service because I didn't know a special "security" password. Funny, the last time she used the system, they didn't have "security" passwords. But, no matter how I tried, they wouldn't let me cancel the account, even though I explained that my mother had passed away. And they wouldn't tell me how to get a "security" password. By the way, not a hint of sympathy.

Finally, in frustration I went to her computer, was able to establish a connection to AOL, and set a "security" password. Then I called back AOL. After about 15 minutes, someone answered. I explained that my mother passed away, and that I wanted to cancel her service. Their first question was "why are you cancelling?" I had to repeat: because she was dead. Again, not a hint of sympathy. The next question from them was "would you like to keep the account?" I said "What is it about dead you don't understand?" They said, well maybe you want to use her screen name. I asked "is that so I can scare people who think she's departed?"
Finally after at least another 10 minutes of annoying talk like "are you sure you want to do this?", he agreed to cancel the service.

The topper is that at the end, he told me that "we'll keep the screen name" so that it can be reactivated again. I imagine that AOL counts subscribers the way Chicago counted voters in 1960.

Oh, guess what. About two months later, a letter, addressed to my late mother, arrives at her house. Would she like to restore her AOL service?

Can we talk to you too?

GreggHenson.com
KZNX/Austin

Way to go man. I hope AOL gets an avalanche of cancellations over all this bad press.

Teacher: "So I said just cancel this account. And of course, they switched me to someone else to figure it out. I kept telling them to cancel it. So finally they said they would. I got BILLED."

Exact same thing happened to me, it took me two months and a ream of letters to sort it out because I told them I refused to be hassled over the phone any more.

As a former AOL employee (at the Jacksonville Call Center - which closed recently - for a little more than three years, ending in 1997), I can tell you that this sort of thing was encouraged.

I worked in the Saves Department for 2 months before moving on to Repair, and it was standard practice to keep the person talking. The more they talked, the more likely it was to get them to keep the service. The pressure to keep you is so great other reps would place free months on the account rather than cancel. Remember that talk times were also in place, so we'd have only a short time to get you to stay.

When I was training for the Saves Dept. they sat me with a rep who had a phenominal record both in saves and talk time. His secret?

Disconnect the first 15-20 calls of the day (when the Quality Monitoring Department was least likely to be listening). Then if the person on the other end didn't accept the offer in 2 minutes, say the account was cancelled but place 3 months credit on the account so they wouldn't get another debit from their credit card until well after they thought the account was closed. This way also you got your bonus for the save ($5.00 per save, provided they kept the account 3 months).

When I brought up to the manager what I had seen with this rep, her response was "Yea, but did you learn anything?" Yup, how NOT to do that job. I was a dismal failure at saves, and they were looking to get rid of me (after two years of good service before the move), but I moved into a tech training class at the first opportunity. I was there at AOL for another year.

When I first came to AOL it was the best job I had ever had. By the time I left, it was the worst. I left behind 100 shares of stock that would have vested 24 DAYS after I left. (At the time, AOL was a stock darling and had I sold that stock at its highest point in the interviening years, I would have had over a million dollars in hand, after stock splits and such prior to reaching highest price point). I STILL concider it a blessing to have left when I did.

I've always thought AOL was for newbies and novices and I had an account very briefly to have a second, standby account. That was back in 93 or 94. I also had an awful time getting rid of the mess. They wouldn't let me cancel until I threatened them with a law suit and everything else.

AOL is a ripoff and I would never use it. When I get an email from someone with an AOL address it marks them as a newbie to me and someone not experienced on the net. Whether that is true in reality or not, that's the image it gives. So not having an AOL account is the smart thing as most of us who have been online for a long time feel the same way.

AOL is a very bad outfit.

Susanna

I got rid of my AOL account in 2001. Three months later we got a bill for a monthly charge. We called AOL and were told that our bank had requested a monthly charge from SIX months earlier back. We called our bank (B of A) and they told us that they could not do that even if they wanted to. We checked all of our statements and there had never been an issue of any kind with our AOL payments. We got both companies on the phone at the same time to let them explain to each other. AOL had NO records of the alleged transaction. It only read that way on the CSR's screen. In the end, we were told that if we did not pay it AOL would put it down as a non-payment on our credit report. We were trying to qualify for our first home loan (which we got) at the time and did not want to take any chances. So, we paid the extorsion. It's sad that a company as big as AOL will do such petty things to it's customer base. And yet they can't figure out why so many people are leaving!

Hey Vincent! I just wanted to drop you a line telling you a fes things. First: I think it was great that you not only taped That Phonecall, but that you also made it public. And second: I found this site today, and backtracking your posts I couldn't believe how fast things travel... I found your recorded phonecall on break.com and thought it was so hilarious that I made a link to it in my own blog. That was on the 15th of june - only two days after you posted it here.
I have never met you, I had - at that point - never seen your site and I have never had anything to do with AOL...oh, and I live in a semi-small town in the north of Sweden...and even I now thought that AOL sucked!
Amazing, isn't it! :D
If you feel like it, you can check out the blog-post I made on the 15th of june, but it's all in Swedish so I'n not sure if you'll get anything out of it. :) It's right here: http://cobb.wordpress.com/2006/06/15/aol/

All the best
Micke - Umea, Sweden

Something like this happened to me many years ago in 1997! I called many times to cancel my account but after saying they would they would cancel it, they did not. At that time, they had a special rate of 24.95 per month that I was supposed to receive but they kept on billing me at the higher rate per minute. It went up to thousands of dollars! I cannot tell you how exasperating and unhelpful they all were. I finally called my credit card company and explained the problem to them and even at that time VISA had a massive file of complaints about AOL and warned me that it would take some time to cancel the account and resolve the issue. I have not used them for almost ten years and I would strongly advise others to not use them either. Importantly, at the time they offered the special rate of 24.95 per month, they did not have the infrastructure in place to handle the vast increase in business and you could never get through. There was a lawsuit that tried to address this issue but I never heard how it was resolved.

Thank you so much for going public with your experience! I, too, had the same experience cancelling AOL. The added twist for me was that they told me I had no right to cancel the account, I wasn't authorized! When I asked them what they were talking about, they told me that I had called in and changed my name on the account a few months prior and that unless I could come up with the name it had been changed to, I had no authority to cancel. I came up with some names, alright. I, of course, never changed the name on the account. I insisted it was fraud and demanded to be transferred to someone else. It seemed the word 'fraud' was key, as he transferred me to someone else immediately. After 45 minutes, swearing like a sailor, and pacing a new hole in the carpet, I was finally given a cancellation number. I agree that you should be able to cancel on line just as you can sign up online. Honestly, my divorce was easier, and much less than 45 minutes in court!

God I love your 15 minutes. I knew this was going to be huge when I heard it on Digg.com for the first time. It's jus fun to be able to see it play out in its entirety. :) I hope you're taking pictures or something...

Excellent work, Vincent!!

How did you record the call? Does the recorder plug into the phone jack and then you plug the phone into the recorder?

I want to have one of these for any time I ever have to call customer service again. Failing that, any time I do have to call cus service, I'll ask them if I have their permission to record the conversation to keep them professional.

AOL DOES THIS AS A STRATEGY.... AND IT IS NOT JUST THIS ONE REP... I signed up for AOL as a gift to a 78-year old woman who used to take care of our family... so we could email her pictures. Well, she couldn't really use the computer too well, and decided to cancel. So she called AOL.. but she couldn't give them the password information they wanted and they wouldn't give her anyother way to verify her identity to cancel. She was too embarassed to ask me for help... they billed her for TWO YEARS - a woman who lives on social security. I finally got on the case, it took over an hour and calls transferred to outsourced centers in South Africa to even get her two months of credit back..

This is really an outrage. Thanks Vincent...

The following is a letter I sent the AOL-holes after I called to cancel my account. There was no reply. (My wife had a similar experience prior to mine...)

I have just been on the phone with your “customer service representative”, named Russell (screen name RSSBHMR) for almost 20 minutes, attempting to cancel my service. This represents the third time I have contacted your company to attempt to cancel my service, and I would like to have the tape recorded conversations from these three conversations reviewed by your upper management. These have been by far the most amazingly ridiculous interactions I have ever had with any customer service department in my life. I am extremely disappointed in the way that I have been treated both by your company as well as by your employees personally. Below please review a brief summary of the long process I have now gone through to try to simply cancel my service.
On January 7, 2005, I called to cancel my service. The man that I spoke with at that time sent an email confirming that he had cancelled my service, but that the account would be open for another month because I had already paid for it. Again, I invite you to please feel free to review these tapes as there was no question at that time of me continuing my service. I did NOT wish to continue with another “free month” of service at that time, and I spent a significant amount of my time on the phone with him explaining that.
I have just reviewed my credit card statements for this year and much to my dismay, I see that I have been charged for service for the month of February. I therefore called once again to cancel my service and to request a refund for the February charges. The first woman I spoke with took up only about 10 minutes of my time, mainly because I hung up out of sheer frustration. Every time I call, I can not seem to impress upon your representatives that I simply want to cancel my service—WITHOUT being required to listen to ten minutes of them trying to convince me to stay with AOL by offering “free” services and upgrades. They are obviously trained to make this process very difficult, and as a consumer it is putting it very mildly to say that I have a great distaste for this tactic. I asked to speak with her supervisor and was informed that no supervisor was available who I could speak with to dispute the February charges.
After hanging up with her, I called back to try again and spoke with Russell as noted above. I was once again met with the challenge of presenting not only my reasons for wanting to cancel (which by this point included the fact that I can never seem to get what I want done by your company without a significant time commitment from me) as well as going through the tedious process of declining every “new, improved, or free” service he could think of to offer me. I was absolutely unable to get any of these three employees to do what I had requested, which should have been a very simple process of cancellation.
At this point, I am in the process of disputing the February charges through my credit card company, as I am able to communicate with them much more easily than with anyone I have ever gotten on the phone with AOL. Please note that this was done only after several attempts to deal with the situation in the more appropriate manner of dealing directly with your company, which also should have been the simpler option. At this point, I am told by them that you should not expect to be paid for the month of February as billed to my account.
Please note also that I have been with your company for nine years, and I am appalled by how unfairly I feel I have been treated over the past few months. I do expect a reply to this letter addressing my complaints. Someone needs to be aware of the way your representatives handle cancellations over the phone, and I would appreciate an apology for the ridiculous amount of time I have spent dealing with this issue.
Thank you in advance for your prompt reply,

Would you check out newslined and maybe add a link?

Thanks everyone! I really appreciate all the support! It means a lot to me...

Saw you on Scarborough last night. Glad to see these AOL nuts are getting bad publicity. You and the host suggested that the recent cancellations were behing this behavior, but I had a terrible experience nearly 4 years ago: I called to cancel my sister's AOL account after she passed away unexpectedly. Despite my repeatedly telling the woman on the phone that the subscriber was no longer alive, she insisted on giving me 3 months free service. I couldnt' believe it! It was as though she could not comprehend what I was telling her and she plowed through apparently reading off some prepared script in front of her. Needless to say I've since talked everyone I know out of subscribing to AOL.

Glad to see you're getting attention for this.

I, too, had the same problem a few years back. It took forever for them to listen to me; I eventually had to tell them I was moving deep into the Amazon jungle [not true, but I had spent some time there, and it seemed like a foolproof way that they couldn't talk me into staying]. They still tried to get me to keep it, but finally relented.

Yo Vinny;
Glad to see that something is being done to
correct AOL Accounts.
In order to cancel my account I changed to Road Runner and My grand son Vincent Called Road runner service and they canceled AOL for me.
Now I get it for free with Road Runner.
Keep up the Good Work.
Grandpa.

I hope they continue to charge you, that would make for another story!

Wait a go man. We covered it on newslined.

Your troubles are not over yet. Wait until you get your charge card statement and find that AOL is still charging you.

P.S. I had similar problems cancelling my own account and that of a friend who doesn't speak English very well. It's even tougher being an intermediary for another person. Good riddance to AOL. It's a rinky-dink way of accessing the Web anyway.

Well, you made the French-Canadian news In Quebec, Canada. Good job on keeping your cool dude.

And are they going to be careful now, fearing getting "taped" or maybe they'll start asking customers: " are you taping this? "

Good job ;-)

Glenn Beck discussed your story on the radio this morning ... he said that after listening to your recording, he wanted to get an AOL account just so he could call and cancel it :-)

AOL is certainly not the only company to abuse their customers like this. Credit card companies such as Citibank and Capital One are notorious for this.

I sincerely hope that this blows the bottom out of AOL's bottom line at the end of Q3. No amount of PR work can dig AOL out of this. No amount...

If you are an AOL subscriber, CANCEL YOUR ACCOUNT NOW. I guarantee you it will be pretty easy now. Join Yahoo! or something. I've been a non-paying customer of Yahoo! for over eight years and have been thoroughly satisfied by a service that is essentially paid for by the advertisers... not by the blood of paying subscribers.

Just a heads up that you've been mentioned on the culture jammers website. in fact, they say their action was nothing compared to what you've done. nice props... see for yourself

Good job! Keep up the good work. A transcrpit of the John conversation appeared today in the . John said almost the same exact things there as an AOL CSR said to me earlier this year. The bullying and incivilty were appalling. thank you for spreading the word about AOL.

Last week I tried to cancel, to no avail.
After one hour and 3 advil, I gave in.
I called back to leave a complaint (passive-agressive here) and was put on hold for 10 minutes. I hung up. I called back and the same thing happened.
It took 2 hours out of my day. I was spoken to in a condescending manner, with a tone that indicated that I had no right to cancel. I was spoken over, ahead of, and the retention person trivialized my issue with annoyed laughter. He would bypass everything I was saying and yell, "Just Listen To Me!!"
If I wanted to feel so humiliated, I would have called my ex-husband.

Hi from Canada. Good job at exposing AOL's bad customer service practices. You handled yourself in a more professional manner than they did. I'm sure glad I don't have AOL. It's not worth the hassle.

I saw the video today and KUDOS to you!!! I was on for 45 minutes too answering the longest survey of my life. My husband was almost falling on the floor laughing looking at my pathetic face.

I wish I'd recorded mine too, it was about two years ago. I will forward your link to Red and Tom over at Scared Monkeys so they pick up your story and comment on it as well.

Thanks for bringing this to light. I remembered my incident immediately after I saw just the headline of the video.

On 6/20/06 I too talked to "John," but this guy had an East Indian accent. The total time of the call, including the initial bout with the computer answering service, the time on hold, the verbal combat with John the zombie, and another period of hold time (to "listen to legal announcements") was 25 minutes.

I finally threatened to contact my credit card company and dispute any payments to aol--and I also promised to shoot myself if he didn't shut up.
I got the cancellation number, so I guess it worked.

Sir,
I used to work for AOL and the difficulty in cancelling AOL is deliberate! They have a department called "Member Retention" or "Member Saves". Thier job, simply put, is to convince people to not cancel thier AOL account. They even pay bonusus based on how many people you "save". Dont believe me?? Check this link :


www.corp.aol.com/careers/callOK.html


The reason why most people have difficulty is because these workers are in constant threat of termination for not meeting a certain save quota (thats why i was terminated). Aol has been doing this since at least 1996.

Blurb from thier website:

Member Retention Consultants
As a member retention consultant in our casual environment you will be responsible for managing inbound calls from members who wish to cancel their AOL account. Your goal will be to resell the member their AOL account.

Although you will experience a variety of calls every day, including billing related calls, most calls that you will handle in the Member Retention department involve retaining current AOL Members. AOL Retention Consultants identify member needs, educate our members about how AOL is an invaluable part of their lives, and resell the member on AOL products and services. You must be able to respond with confidence and enthusiasm in order to effectively retain each member. This position requires a strong ability to sell and resell AOL by problem solving, rebutting objections, and negotiating with members while providing world-class customer service. Computer skills and knowledge of AOL's benefits and features are critical to your success at AOL.

AOHell

I'm in Canada and had the same problem cancelling my account roughly 5 or 6 years ago.

Finally I just stopped paying and they cancelled it after about 3 months of non-payment. They never attempted to contact me to recover the money and we parted ways.

Longest breakup I ever endured.

Vincent, you made Slashdot.org Hope they don't Direct Link or your server will get the Slashdot Effect!
;)

Good Job, BTW.

scratch that I got the number

I have been trying to cancel my aol account on and off for several years. It got to the point that I just pay the thing yearly because I can't seem to get to the place that can seemingly cancel my account. Do you have the number that I can call to move forward on this issue?

Good Job Sir! I'm glad for you, but surprised it has taken so long to expose this. I feel sorry for the fellow who was terminated; he was only following standard operating procedure. The people responsible for these practices should be terminated!

More questions and answers not revealed on your tape:
-You have DSL/Cable? AOL offers a "Bing Your Own Connection" deal.
-The price is high? We'll give it to you for $5/month!!!!
-You speak Spanish? We offer free English lessons online.
It goes on and on. They offer to extend it 30 days, then call back to cancel again.

I had a similar experience with AOL about 9 years ago.

Why is AOL still in business?

I heard you say something about your blog on MSNBC last night. I was directed here via another blog reporting about this.

I think it's hilarious. Your story is all over the internet now in message boards and what not.

Bravo! I had the same experience with AOL about 10 years ago. My call included the AOL rep directing me to make AOL my home page. This prectice could not be so common without the direction of supervisors. I'll bet John wasn't fired and I'll bet AOL continues this practice. I hope others take your lead and CANCEL their account and TAPE the process.

Same deal. It's much easier to get rid of a bad boyfriend! The AOL customer service guy, Samuel, I believe, kept insisting that I needed AOL to get all sorts of extras that, of course, I don't need. Too bad, I had become so accustomed to AOL that I did have a hard time changing to SBC but I got tired of AOL doing things while I was working, having my password stolen and cutting me off line. I finally agreed to a free month and $4.95/month for some AOL program. Now, I have to send in a Cancel Request Form in order to cancel AOL. Wish that I had taped my call.

Get this: I got one of those free-trial AOL disks in the mail. It wouldn't allow me to finish loading it. I was having problems and called their help desk and they couldn't figure out what was wrong either. So I said just cancel this account. And of course, they switched me to someone else to figure it out. I kept telling them to cancel it. So finally they said they would. I got BILLED. When I called up to complain, they asked me what was the reference number on my cancellation form I was sent. I told them I was never told I would get one and I never received anything in the mail. They told me I had to pay the bill because they ALWAYS send out cancellation forms. I wish I had recorded that conversation, too. I'm glad for you, Vincent.

I just heard your tape on WDFN in Detroit (must have heard it from WXYT)...I feel for ya buddy.

WOW. just saw this.

Amazing that you kept your cool... Especially when he said "You are going to have to let me finish this paragraph"....

Unreal. Good Jub. Hope you can bootstrap your fame into long term success!

I also cancelled my account it took me 40 minutes, the guy would not shut up. I went as far as telling him "I hate AOL", "I hate You" cancel my account. He still would not shut up, so everytime he asked a question I said I am not listening, cancel the account, try hearing that for about 5 minutes. I told him I know you have to go through you little speech but just cancel the account.

I aslo told him I was calling AOL on the other phone, he said I would just have to got through it again, I said one of you bastards are going to cancel the account. Finally after 40 minutes he got the picture and cancelled it. Never again will I ever go back to AOL

I went thru the same thing about two weeks before yours was posted and I think I got the same guy. It was as if Ihad to justify canceling the account. He tried five times to get me to sign up for a different service before finally giving up.

I do not understand why you have to make phone calls and deal with people like this when they let you sign up with a few clicks of the mouse. If you can sign up online, you should be able to cancel online.

LOL

your 5 minutes of fame across US....

damm i wish i had AOL account.....NOT

Dude, you are my hero!

I wanted to send AOL a bloated piece of roadkill after cancelling my account! Took me almost 35 minutes to get it cancelled! WAY TO EXPOSE THESE BASTARDS!

Yo Vinny, you made the Drudgereport. Not only that, he put you in "red" which is reserved for things like "Korea launches missile".

There are a ton of site to read for the latest news, but when you get on Drudge, EVERYBODY knows.