Jun 25 2006
For all the armchair lawyers…
Just for reference purposes, to all the geniuses who think recording a conversation is illegal:
Telephone Recording Laws:
States Requiring One Party Notification
Alabama
Alaska
Arizona
Arkansas
Colorado
District Of Columbia
Georgia
Hawaii
Idaho
Illinois
Indiana
Iowa
Kansas
Kentucky
Louisiana
Maine
Minnesota
Mississippi
Missouri
Nebraska
Nevada
New Jersey
New Mexico
New York
North Carolina
North Dakota
Oklahoma
Oregon
Ohio
Rhode Island
South Carolina
South Dakota
Tennessee
Texas
Utah
Vermont
Virginia
West Virginia
Wisconsin
WyomingStates Requiring Two Party Notification
California
Connecticut
Delaware
Florida
Massachusetts
Maryland
Michigan
Montana
New Hampshire
Pennsylvania
Washington
Enough with the “that call taping was illegal.”
It wasn’t.
Google does make you smarter if you bother using it, my little wanna be lawyers.
Move on to another way to discredit me now, will ya? The fact that I’m a fat bastard seems to be a favorite of those so devoid of something interesting to say. Stick with that one for awhile.
June 25th, 2006 at 4:09 am
People like to criticize, especially me, if I don’t agree with something. But I agree with you.
June 25th, 2006 at 5:20 am
What a pile of crap!!
YOU, sir, were unethical in your actions. Dig up all the “legal” nonsense you want, the fact remains that you cost a man his liveliehood for no better reason than to see your fat face on TV in a mildly interesting CNN segment. Hope you’re proud of yourself
June 25th, 2006 at 7:15 am
Cost a man his livelihood? You are bloody kidding, right? We’ve all heard that call and it’s obvious that Vincent wasn’t trying to lead this guy or trap him. His was a simple request and the AOL guy would not accept it. There’s nothing wrong with trying to convince a customer to stay, but there’s a point where you stop trying. This guy crossed the line in a big way.
If anyone is to blame here, it’s AOL. It seems that they have charged their employees with using these strongarm tactics and, once it gets exposed, they scapegoat the poor schmuck who happened to be caught on tape (even though his attitude toward the end was out of line regardless of the policy). AOL is hemorrhaging subscribers and they seem to be putting the burden on their CSRs rather than improving their service and marketing their product.
I do agree, however, that it’s time to stop going on television. The point has been made and continuing to appear makes it look as if the goal was to grab a quarter-hour of fame. Point made, AOL has responded, that should be the end of it…move on. No more of this, “let’s PROVE how bad AOL is!” junk. That makes one look as if he’s on a vendetta.
June 25th, 2006 at 9:02 am
I think you’re great man. The AOL thing was the must absurb thing I’ve seen in a long time. You were extremely patience with the a****le. What a jerk the guy was, whether or not he was following AOL policy.
June 25th, 2006 at 9:47 am
Bob S Yruncle: LOL!
Cost the man his livelihood? His “livelihood” was to deny a person’s right to cancel — and stop paying for — a service.
When a mafia hitman gets arrested, do you blame police for the man losing his job? Ken Lay lost his job, too.
You’re cracking me up.
June 25th, 2006 at 10:54 am
Vincent,
You have done an enormous service for the, otherwise intimidated, PAYING customers of AOL and many other companies who utilize such tactics.
Bob S Yruncle…when you call into these centers, you idiot, THEY record YOU! Hasn’t anyone heard of the practice of “monitoring for quality assurance?” I cannot believe the ignorance displayed in some of these posts. Proof positive, as consumers, we need more guidance like Vincent’s.
I am a CSR for an airline, where, the Number 1 mantra is “Honor thy Passenger”. I never realized customers were supposed to honor me!
June 25th, 2006 at 11:00 am
I’d be willing to bet that airline is Delta Song, America West, or Jet Blue because those folks are awesome…
June 25th, 2006 at 11:04 am
Close, we are in a partnership along with Continental…I’m at Northwest. My cancellation calls last an average of 11 seconds and then we ask, “is there anything else I can assist you with?” Pretty simple when the wishes of your customers come first!
June 25th, 2006 at 11:08 am
Why Cindy, that’s damn near revolutionary!
June 25th, 2006 at 11:19 am
Not really. Just think about it…I’ve flown various airlines for 30 years as a customer. Then I go to work for one. I already know how the person on the other end of the line wants to be treated and the kind of voice they want to hear! (Having been there myself)
June 25th, 2006 at 11:25 am
The three airlines I mentioned were by far the best I’ve been on (never flown Northwest), but I do notice a trend in that people on those airlines in general try REALLY hard to make you feel at home. I know it probably sucks that they almost end up becoming subordinates (and seeing the way they’re treated by some passengers, slaves), but in the end there’s nothing that brings a person back to an airline more than an awesome CSR or flight attendant. It makes me happy that people in the airline industry, for the most part, understand the direct correlation between happy customers and a successful business.
June 25th, 2006 at 11:29 am
OMG Bob! You sir, are an idiot.
Vincent didn’t “cause” that douche to be fired, the douche brought it on himself. He did not HAVE to be an asshole about it. He did not HAVE to ask to speak to Vincent’s father, like Vincent was some misbehaved child prank calling.
John lost his job because he was an asshole and probably violated some company rules somewhere. Had he not done anything wrong, he wouldn’t have been fired, and Vincent’s experience would go largely unnoticed.
People make choices. The only choices we DON’T have have in life is birth and death. Everything in between is a choice *including* being an asshat on the phone to someone that wants to cancel their unused account.
AOL is desperate to keep people like Vincent as customers because the customers are the ones that keep the lights on. AOL continues to step in their own shit (and they fall into it up to their neck, I might add) time and time again, they lose customers left and right, and if it weren’t for their other companies supporting them, they would go under in a heartbeat.
Oh hey Bob? I just had a phone call.
It was your proctologist.
They found your head.
June 25th, 2006 at 12:40 pm
Great blog. I completely sympathize with you and all the other former AOL customers. When I canceled them a couple of years back I had the ‘pleasure’ of speaking with a heavily accented foreign office customer service employee. He used every trick in the book to delay the inevitable including asking me over 5 times to “please repeat that, sir. Your phone is breaking up.” Then he actually got offended that I raised my voice so that he could hear me clearly. Who would tolerate such b/s tactics? I will never use A O Hell again. The CNN spot was great!
Best wishes.
June 25th, 2006 at 2:42 pm
Vince- how do you read through all of this???? My god, especially through the crap comments from people who have nothing nice to say, and obviously nothing else to do. What morons they are. Disagreeing is one thing, but calling you names……. so stupid. I would love to get a look at “Bob S Yruncle”…. he must be a really beauty!
love- your agent.
June 25th, 2006 at 3:02 pm
Bob S Yruncle = John? lol
Comeon Bob that guy needs to be working in a cracker factory away from the public.
I feel sorry for the next employer that hires him.
June 25th, 2006 at 3:08 pm
LOL, actually, I took your advice Vince and listened to (and am actually listening to it now) your interview on Leo Laporte’s LA show. You’re right, I am much relieved to hear your, and the host’s comments. However, I am especially happy to see you come to the same conclusion I did on the recording issue. You nailed it: They themselves record or monitor their calls so there IS no issue respective to privacy between a customer and the calltaker. That sentiment could be challenged in two-party states, but I don’t think any lawyer would bother knowing AOL itself encourages the use of recorded conversations.
Besides, I seriously doubt AOL would be stupid enough to engage in a superflouous retaliatory attack on you. A few of the zecs that caused this problem would be better off at home with their families praying and hoping this controversy dies than antagonizing you.
Right now I guarantee anyone that people are going to be recording their cancellation calls. Not a lot, but enough and with enough uncertainty, that AOL will never again be comfortable taking the conversation beyond “I want to cancel my account” and then “Yes sir.”
Dave
June 25th, 2006 at 4:12 pm
Bob S Yruncle = John from AOL
Your a loser buddy who needs to grow up and stop defending low life people like John. It doesn’t matter what Vinny’s motives were the fact remains that John was extremely rude (like yourself) and had been to many people so he definitely deserves to be in the unemployement line (like yourself). So stop crying about it and get over yourself:!:
June 25th, 2006 at 4:31 pm
Thank you for exposing the type of behavior that AOL’s employee displayed. I would have wanted to grab the guy by the neck and strangle him, listening to his crap.
Thank you for reminding me of just one of the reasons I am glad I never used AOL.
June 25th, 2006 at 4:35 pm
With the many posts describing other stories, I’d be surprised if this doesn’t turn into a class action suit. I’d bet there are lawyers trying to contact the folks describing their issues in order to build a case.
If the AOL John was just a scapegoat, it would be in his best interests to come forward and file a wrongful termination suit since he was just following policy, right? Well, to thwart off that, I’m sure AOL gave him a pretty good severance package and had him sign a non-disclosure termination contract to keep him quiet. I’d bet the AOL John is doing OK right now. With the cutbacks they are going through, he probably has gotten a better deal than others that will be “downsized” or “outsourced”.
June 25th, 2006 at 11:20 pm
Regarding “Bob S Yruncle” comment, it never fails. There’s always some dumbass devil’s advocate out there that love to flame on public Internet forums.
June 26th, 2006 at 1:54 am
I’m glad you did what you did. We’ve all dealt with jerks from these big companies (not just AOL) who want to treat common people like dirt. We have the right to fight back, and anyone who says that you were unethical in taping your conversation is just an idiot, plain and simple. These companies are the unethical ones. And frankly, I’m glad that moron lost his job, it’s obvious he was treating you like crap out of contempt for his dead end, crappy job.
June 26th, 2006 at 6:52 am
My husbands mother died last year and he had to call and cancel her AOL account. They kept asking him why she wanted to cancel her account. He said “She’s DEAD!!!” He finally agreed to a years committment in HIS name just to get off the phone. UNBELIEVABLE! Twelve months later, he lost his wallet and I had to cancel his credit cards. AOL notified us they could no longer charge our card. I consider that a BLESSING! They’ll never get another card # from me.
June 26th, 2006 at 9:50 am
I’m surprised at the sympathy expressed for the CSR. Frankly, I doubt they fired him because I believe he was doing as he was told. Fired or not, the CSR’s behavior was reprehensible. In my experience, AOL’s behavior has been reprehensible.
Talking with my coworkers, I heard similar horror stories. Kudos to Vincent for dragging AOL out into the light of day so it can be seen. I wish I’d recorded my conversation with their CSR, thought it was illegal.
I’m not a lawyer, but I imagine that AOL would have sought legal remedy for the recording if they could. As to whether or not Vincent was ethical, I see nothing unethical about revealing a bully as a bully, and AOL was a bully. The whole notion that someone could behave that way and think they deserve to get away with it is absurd. If anyone was unethical, it was AOL.
Cheers
June 26th, 2006 at 10:02 am
I heard your AOL recording. My (one) experience with them was typical. My rep simply would not cancel the account no matter how many times I said it. My mother had the same experience. It seems obvious that this is a company policy, although they may never come right out and say it. AOL sux and I discourage anyone from signing up with the.
June 26th, 2006 at 10:49 am
Spencer may have already mentioned this somewhere along the way, but years ago we recorded a phone call to a credit card company who was sending bills to the wrong location and then refusing to give us our total via phone when we called to tell them we had never received it.
It was a whole big mess, including many late fees and what not because we didn’t have a payment address for 4 months or so. We finally taped a conversation with one of the CSRs who was telling us the address they were sending the bills to, and us giving them our correct address because they just kept saying they were never given an updated address.
May favorite part of the recording? “Calls may be recorded for quality assurance.”
June 26th, 2006 at 1:31 pm
AOL is for fat people?
June 26th, 2006 at 2:50 pm
Well, in any case, you can always make words work to your favor, specially for those with higher IQs than the CSRs on the other side of the line.
Just start a phone conversation like this…
Company’s automated phone answering system says: This call will be recorded for quality assurance.
CSR: Hello, this is stupid me. (Note: get used to hear this line with a thick accent more and more often).
You (pissed costumer): So, is this call being recorded?
CSR: Yes, this call is being recorded so that… blah blah blah.
You (pissed costumer): Good, this call is being recorded. (You just let the CSR know this call is being recorded, but it simply went over his head).
There, that’s how you do it.
June 26th, 2006 at 3:30 pm
Thank you. I had the same experience three years ago. I found that AOL had essentially taken over all my saved files and was far too present. I called to cancel and was badly abused by a “customer service representative” for at least an hour. I was offered “free tech support”, “free hours” and “free months” and continually challenged as to why I was not being “reasonable”. As a state licensed mental health counselor, trained not to lose my temper, I found myself yelling four letter expletives over the phone by the end of that hour and telling colleagues about my experience for days later. At my mildest forty-five minutes in, I continued to state, “Look, I just want to cancel my membership” to no avail. Your experience is not the experience of only one individual or of one customer associate. Clearly, these AOL associates are, and have been for years, under tremendous pressue not to allow anyone to just say no. I thought I was the only one dealing with one crazy associate…three years later, I know I’m not.
June 26th, 2006 at 4:19 pm
Leo’s Trick (above) made me wonder this: If the calls are really recorded, and archived, can they be asked for as part of the discovery process in a class action lawsuit?
June 26th, 2006 at 4:51 pm
I’m pretty sure there will be an unfortunate technical problem if that situation ever arrises.
June 26th, 2006 at 10:44 pm
I thought I would add my experiences with aol to yours and others about 3 or better years ago I tried aol out for free I was new to the internet and on a limited budget so who turns down free right well after a few months actually about 5 weeks I kept getting theese annoying pop ups that blocked what I was trying to see then theese come ons for free stuff any way I started having problems so I called their technical support people big joke you need a translator to understand theese people who live in india and are given American sounding names and you try and describe your problem and then after making some futile gesture to fix the problem you are refered to another department for a “free ” whatever dinner road service ect the free is a joke they delete money from your bank account for services rendered so one day i got feed up with being bled dry and said i want out well after countless minutes of arguing and promises of 6 months of free service if i stayed I kept telling them I want out then came the insults on you must bee really dumb brain dead ect to pass up this free offer so I said is there any one in the office that understood English I want out !!!so eventually after hours of pleas negotians and insults veiled threats I thought I was finally out and after searching for another Isp found one and got service with them and found out when I got my bank statement that they were still doing invasive raids on my bank account so I went down to the bamnk to tell them to stop payment on any and all acess to my account by aol and any and all affiliates agent or people or companies associated with them in any way shape or form permanently this is non revokeable by any one period for any reason and thought i was done with the matter only to find out that they were still tryimg to take money unlawfully by putting in requests for funds after midnight or forfing my name to said requests so I and the bank called aol corporate and said that what they were doing was criminal and if it continues we will file charges with the states attorney ,the FTC and FCC who I called and sent several copies of letters sent to them as well as bank statements letters sent to them finally got them to stop 5 months later or so i thought they had so infected my computer that I could not delete their protocols that when I signed on with my new Isp I was hijacked back to aol several technical people tried to clean them out but they kept comming back so eventually I had to get rid of the the computer and get a new one and even now I get come back letters that go in the dumpster along with their free cds thats my srory so far
June 27th, 2006 at 6:09 pm
Vinny you rock man. They should syndicate your ass. I love how the one guy commented, “I do agree it’s time to stop going on television.” Thanks for the career advice there Potsy. Rush who? Let’s tackle some real issues!
I’m sure you could hammer cell phone companies for the next decade or so if you’re up for it. I’m so happy that my new $500.00 Verizon Wireless bluetooth enabled phone has a wireless headset. After all, who wants the hassle of wireless sync and file transfer? It’s so much easier to carry a USB cable in your pocket.
Keep it up brother. If you don’t, I’ll send you the infamous AOL startup CD with 2 gagillion free hours every week like clockwork.
Chris
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:19 pm
RadioStatic » Blog Archive » Radio Static Podcast 2006-13
[...] Disconnecting AOL - This rep got fired but what and idiot he is. Here link to the blog I found it at. Also read his take on recording conversations, and, in general, read his blog he has many post on this one. Thanks for the clip and permission Vinny! [...]