Jun 28 2006
I’ve Had it With Idiots
Okay, once and for all, let’s have this out in the open.
Some genius named Rob Zazueta (don’t worry, I’ve never heard of him either, I just found his post in Bloglines) has a problem with my AOL recording. So do a lot of folks. In fact, now that the story has pretty much calmed down, all kinds of people are all over the “time to drag down Vinny” shit.
Here’s the post from the genius.
This comes on the tail of last week’s AOL customer service debacle which also resulted in the firing of the employee involved. Loads of bloggers listened to Vincent Ferrari’s AOL recording and recalled their own frustrations trying to cancel their service with various providers. And, while the customer service person on the other end of the line was completely out of line, I feel Ferrari may have precipitated it with his already belligerent attitude. Keep in mind: it’s not like he records all of his phone calls on the off-chance he’ll have something bloggable. As he said in his original post, “Knowing the horror stories, I decided to do the deed at work where I could record the whole thing.” This doesn’t exactly set anyone up for a friendly conversation.
The echo chamber that is the blogosphere can rapidly generate a mob mentality unlike one we’ve ever really been able to create. In the old days, the townsfolks[sic] raid the castle (or whatever) carrying pitchforks and torches. In reality you’d probably be luck[sic] to get a dozen or so folks revolting in such a way, and only after tensions have had time to brew and simmer.
Yeah ass. Lots of people listened to my recording. Lots of people had it happen to them.
Maybe they provoked the guy also?
Here’s the way the conversation went.
AOL: Hi this is jon at aol, how may i help you today?
VF: I wanted to cancel my account.
AOL: Sorry to hear that. Go ahead and pull your account up real quick. Can I have your name please?
VF: Vincent Ferrari
AOL: OK Vincent, and for privacy and security, can I have the last 4 digits of your payment method?
VF:
AOL: Thank you very much. OK, you had this account for a long time.
VF: Yup.
AOL: This is quite a bit. What was causing you to want to turn this off today?
VF: I just don’t use it anymore.
AOL: So you have a high speed connection like DSL or cable?
VF: Yup.
AOL: How long have you had that? The highspeed?
VF: Years, years.
AOL: OK, well actually, I’m showing a lot of usage on this account.
VF: Yeah, a long time ago. Not recently.
AOL: No, the popsferrari account was on 71 hours since the 24th of last month.
VF: No he wasn’t. He doesn’t even have the AOL software installed on his computer. You’re looking at AIM usage probably.
AOL: No, AIM usage doesn’t come on to this.
VF: He doesn’t have the AOL software installed on his computer.
AOL: Now, this is your father then?
VF: Yup.
AOL: Well, I’m looking at this account…
VF: Uh, either way, whatever you’re seeing…
AOL: Well what’s causing you to want to turn this off today? I mean obviously…
VF: I don’t use it and he doesn’t use it, so we’re cancelling. I’m telling you he doesn’t use the account. The software is not even on his computer.
AOL: Well OK, I mean is there a problem with the software itself?
VF: No, I just, I don’t use it, I don’t need it, I don’t want it. I just don’t need it anymore.
AOL: OK, so when you use this, I mean, when you use the computer I’m saying, is that for business or for school?
VF: Dude, what difference does it make? I don’t want the AOL account anymore. Can we please cancel this?
AOL: Well, on June 2nd, someone signed on and has been on for 72 hours. On June 2nd…
VF: I don’t know how to make it any clearer.
AOL: Last year was 540… last month was 545 hours of usage.
VF: I don’t know how to make this any clearer, so I’m just going to say it one last time. Cancel. The. Account. Please.
AOL: Well explain to me what’s what why…
VF: I’m not explaining anything to you. Cancel. The. Account.
AOL: What what’s the matter man? I mean, we’re just, I’m just trying to help here.
VF: You’re not helping me. You’re… Helping me would be cancelling…
AOL: I’m am trying to…
VF: Helping me… Listen: I called to cancel the account. Helping me would be cancelling the account. Please help me and cancel the account.
AOL: No it wouldn’t actually. Turning off your account would be the worst thing that…
VF: Cancel the account. Cancel the account. Cancel the account.
AOL: Is your dad there?
VF: My dad? I’m the primary paying… I’m the primary person on the account, not my dad.
AOL: Yeah, cuz I’m just trying to figure…
VF: Cancel the account. I don’t know how to make this any clearer for you. Cancel the account. The card is mine, in my name.
AOL: OK
VF: The account is mine and in my name. When I say cancel the account, I don’t mean help me figure out how to keep it, I mean cancel the account.
AOL: Well, I don’t know what anybody’s done to you, Vincent. This is…
VF: You’re annoying the shit out of me, that’s what you’re doing to me. Cancel the account please.
AOL: And that goes both ways my friend.
VF: Good. Could you please cancel the account?
AOL: Because, alright, someday, when you’ve calmed down, you’re gonna realize that all I was trying to do was help you, and it was actually in your best interest to listen.
VF: Wonderful, ok great.
AOL: And when that epiphany happens, then, uh, just give us a call back.
VF: Wait.
AOL: As I process your cancellation request, I have to tell you about a free benefit available for valued members like yourself. We will continue to provide you some features of the AOL
VF: Don’t want it. I know the… I know the drill. I don’t even want it. Don’t even bother.
AOL: If you want me to cancel this account, you’re going to let me speak, and.. and give this paragraph. OK? Because if not, we can start you all back, I.. I really don’t care to be honest with you, but you’re going to listen to me if you want this turned off. So, can I speak now?
VF: Go right ahead.
AOL: Thank you. Appreciate that. As I process your cancellation request, I’d like to tell you about a free benefit available for valued members like yourself. We will continue to provide you some features of the AOL service even after the membership has been cancelled. At aol.com you can keep your existing email, buddy list, address book, and more at no cost for as long as you like. There’s no catch. This is AOL’s way of continuing our relationship with you. We know you want to keep your same email. Just go to aol.com and login with your screen name and password. An email confirming the cancellation will be delivered to your free aol.com email within 24 hours. To complete this cancellation with us, there’s a lot of important details. Please hold while I connect.
If Mr. Zazueta is correct, and I went into the call with a chip on my shoulder, then let’s assume it would’ve come out at the beginning of the call seeing as I was predisposed to being annoyed and having a bad experience.
So where did I get belligerent? When he called me a liar about my father using his AOL account with software he doesn’t even have? Or when I told him he was annoying the shit out of me after asking me numerous unrelated questions that had nothing to do with me cancelling? Maybe it was when he asked for my dad?
Let’s even ignore what I said in my own words in front of 4 million people watching the Today Show last Wednesday. Oh wait. What’s that Bobby? Didn’t see that one? Too busy looking for that next big Java programming job? Well, here. Let me make it really easy for you. You won’t even have to go very far to hear it. It’s 2:55 into the interview. Just slide that little button over a bit and BOOM. You’ll be right at the part your stupid ass missed.
What was that line? Listen to it really closely. Take your head out of your own 3rd grade grammar writing ass and listen to it.
Whether or not the call went well, it was going on the site. Not exactly the actions of someone who had preconceived notions about what the call was going to be like or how it was going to play out. In fact, I held onto the call for a week deciding what I wanted to do with it. That’s right. I rushed head first into the fray to get my 15 minutes of fame! Look at me go!
All of my critics lately seem to have one thing in common. They don’t have a brain cell between them and don’t have any ability to perform the act of rational thought. I was short with John. I didn’t see a need to give long-winded explanations. I answered his questions succinctly and specifically up until he started calling me a liar and, despite me telling him the “usage” on my account didn’t matter and I wanted to cancel anyway.
Frankly, I could’ve baited him easily. I could’ve had him cursing a storm at me. It wouldn’t be hard. Apparently AOL beats the crap out of its retention department in many ways and judging by the AOL employees e-mailing me, it’s still the worst department in the company to work for. All I would’ve had to do is say, straight away, “Cancel the f’ing account ass. I’m not interested in keeping it.”
Instead, I stayed polite, and did so for entirely too long according to many of the over 2,000 comments I’ve seen here and elsewhere. No matter what, though, there’s always some ass like Rob who thinks he’s going to make a name for himself by shitting on the big guy. It’s all good Rob. You got my attention mainly because I was doing a vanity search in Bloglines to see who was writing what about me. Call it a weakness.
I guess it’s cool though, because I’ve never heard of Rob before. I imagine a lot of people haven’t. I’ve been blogging for 4 years myself, and reading them significantly longer than that, and Rob’s name never came up.
Not once.
So congratulations Rob Zarzueta, whoever the hell you are. You got my attention by trying to piggy back on my 15 minutes of fame. I’m sure you’ll get more people linking to you from here than you’ve had read that drivel you write in the past ((insert number of minutes you’ve been blogging here)). I’ll guarantee you one thing, though, L33t boy. One day, people are going to remember this story and what it meant for AOL and customers everywhere.
Do you really think anyone’s gonna remember you (or for that matter the other idiots) for shitting on me?
I reckon not, but good luck anyway.
Technorati Tags: aol, rob zarzueta, vincent ferrari, cancellation
June 29th, 2006 at 12:34 am
That’s hilarious. The thing that kept me laughing the entire time I listened to your recording was the LACK of “already belligerent attitude”. I thought you were actually being short and polite to keep him on there just to prove how long they’ll stall you. I still laugh every time I hear it or read it. My favorite part?
“I called to cancel the account. Helping me would be cancelling the account. Please help me and cancel the account.”
It reminded me of Tom Cruise telling Cuba Gooding Jr., “Help me help you!” Thanks for the laugh, Vinny.
June 29th, 2006 at 1:35 am
Vinny, I just do not get the mentality of some people. I can not, for the life of me, see where some of these people see that you were rude to the AOL rep. You stated, to the point, “I want to cancel my account”. I really do not see where you came off rude. I suppose some are just jealous that you recorded the call and were received by the media. Perhaps you should just ignore the nay sayers, and be happy for what you revealed for the majority who see clearly. Thank you for that. http://anthonylemons.blogspot.com
June 29th, 2006 at 5:10 am
I’m on my way to the pharmacy to grab Rob a box of tampons.
BRB.
June 29th, 2006 at 7:48 am
One important thing that BOTH people seem to have missed: If the account is REALLY showing usage for a user who does not have the software on his computer, then there is the good possibility that the account was hijacked, and is being used by someone else. I don’t know what AOLs policy is on hijacking, but when I worked for an ISP, and we found a case of hijacking, our policy was to notify the customer by phone as to what is going on, and suspend the account until we hear from the customer. If we did not hear from the customer in two weeks the account was cancelled, if the customer contacted us, all passwords had to be changed to something that customer had never used before. In either case, if we had not been dealing with an idiot, the account would have been cancelled on that basis alone!!
June 29th, 2006 at 7:56 am
Or he was just pulling a number out of his ass. 545 hours in a single month means being logged onto AOL for 18 hours, every day, for thirty days. How likely is that?
June 29th, 2006 at 10:05 am
Vinny, you crack me up.
We don’t agree on many things, but on the whole AOL debacle, I was rooting for you. They’re a festering pustule on the anus of the internet.
Or something like that.
June 29th, 2006 at 10:34 am
I had a similar experience a while ago. AOL was trying to convince me not to cancel my account. It was a real pain in the neck to get rid of them. I was on the phone for about 40 minutes, my call was transferred all over the place.They still keep calling me…
June 29th, 2006 at 12:10 pm
Has anyone seen this article before? It details quite a bit about what the AOL retention reps have/had to deal with. The article was composed in wake of their last of several “cancellation” controversies.
June 29th, 2006 at 12:37 pm
“belligerent attitude”? By Calmly saying “I wanted to cancel my account.” and NOT justifying it when NOT required?
Me thinks Mr. Zarzueta needs to switch his Kool Aid…
IMO, you were a lot more polite and Professional than most would have been. You didn’t get that guy fired, He did.
June 29th, 2006 at 1:31 pm
When i was there they had a minimum saves rate of 50% and yes they did away with that due to the lawsuit but they still required the Retention reps to make a minimum of 3 saves - often managers were required 3 or more stressing the ‘more’ - the info that was sent to vinny highlights aols training in ‘keep digging’ regardless what the cust says - now a good note from friends who still work at aol state their managers have told them now they are only required to do 2 saves attempts and they were told (get this) that they need to focus on being nicer - ummm shouldn’t that be the goal from the get go? whatever huh?
June 29th, 2006 at 1:43 pm
That is actually very true, they had a whole campaign on what they called “member advocacy”…they showed videos of an employee on the streets of New York asking them ‘how friendly was the aol rep you spoke with’…so how did they correct this…employees were required to say the members name no less than 3 times during the phone call (supposedly to create a good relationship during the call) Personally, I NEVER say a persons full name during ANY conversation, it sounds really retarded. Funny thing is, I always got a corrective action for being “too” friendly! But the way I was raised, there is no such thing, especially in customer service.
June 30th, 2006 at 1:32 am
Saw your story on a CNN clip: I had this exact conversation with AOL waaay back in 99 or 2000 when cancelling my parents account. I can’t believe they’re still getting away with treating customers this way! And I think the letter you received was completely bogus public relations rubbish - this type of customer treatment is company policy.
June 30th, 2006 at 8:59 am
I went through this, too. I didn’t stay as calm and polite though. I would call and make sure that it is actually canceled because they never actually canceled my account and I had to call back 2 more times.
June 30th, 2006 at 1:00 pm
This is amazing, I saw the clip online and I couldn`t believe the things the rep was saying… I used to work in tech support (not anymore thank god) and we would never be allowed to try something like that. The sad thing is the guy was probably just doing what he was forced to do to earn a paycheck, hope he is in a better job like shovelling horse manure without the shovel and gloves…
Big copanies like that try to push everything too far….
June 30th, 2006 at 4:42 pm
OH, this sounds SOOO familiar!!!:roll: I’ve HAD it with “Ao-Hell” (not so official name..:wink:)They tried to keep me as a customers by force too, and p***d 8O:!::mrgreen:me off in some similar way! Thanks for recording this and making sure people know about it! If I treated MY customers like that, I would run out of business…
And ..yeah, a little sorry for the guy getting fired, especially since I wonder if they are being trained that way… But as you stated… he brought it on himself.. BTW… do not mind the mindless pple writing… the rude one was HIM, I wouldn’t stay so calm dealing with this kind of customer service… or lack thereof..
July 1st, 2006 at 3:28 am
I think it’s funny that your “popsferrari” account is signed on all the time.
July 2nd, 2006 at 4:11 am
It doesnt get any easier in the UK. I almost had to be institutionalised after cancelling my AOL account. Wish I recorded it now…
July 3rd, 2006 at 3:15 am
God! I though this kind of things only happened with the ISP in Spain! My own father had it with his, and needed several calls to the company, two fax sended petitions and the threat of a lawsuit…
July 3rd, 2006 at 5:52 am
Vincent - You’ve done a HUGE service to consumers everywhere, not just AOLers or recovering AOLers. The idea itself, not to mention the extent to which the story has quickly spread, should make all corporate customer service managers shake til they bleed. What AOL does borders on extortion, and it’s way overdue that they should suffer for it.
The tactics aren’t unique to AOL; they’re just the rudest and the crudest. (Any organization having a *separate* number to call for cancellations acts the same way and maintains a similar scumbag army.) Don’t feel even an ounce of guilt about the guy losing his job. You could not have been more polite; and he had to have known, on accepting the position, that he’d be entering a volatile, inhumane, self-destructive, anti-consumer occupation where his days would be spent preying on human weakness and his own dignity would be worthless. So any pouting from either him or AOL is laughably inappropriate — like the protests of a schoolyard bully whose minions have turned against him.
I cancelled my own AOL account successfully some years ago, but only after hearing the horror stories and then fabricating an elaborate lie (about long-term employment in a remote part of the world). I hated doing that, but it worked. It still took almost 30 minutes, and I wasn’t nearly as civil or composed as you. Thanks again.
July 3rd, 2006 at 6:30 am
Stumbleupon brought me here indirectly and I found it interesting enough to stop for an hour or so in order to rubberneck at the antics. It’s a shame that there’s a blogger war going on in the sidelines but I suppose that’s the nature of the beast. In fact, that’s precisely why I’m at both this site and Zazueta’s simultaneously. From this perspective I’m able to be bipartisan.
The only reason I’m posting here is that I’m fairly sure both parties will view it eventually.
Vinny,
You did something many of us have wanted to do for a long time. You had the balls to just go ahead and do it by posting it for the world. Long ago (once it dawned on me that “…this phonecall may be recorded…” worked both ways), I paid a visit to my local Radio Shack and did much of the same for personal records. My recordings differ only in that they’re meant to be a sort of adio receipt (if you will) of a transaction. I wonder now how a company would react to my asking, “before we begin this conversation, I’d like a copy of the recording once this transaction is copleted”.
While listening to the recording, I can honestly say that I would have reacted in much the same way as you did. Please note that since my recordings are NOT meant for publication, my interractions with CSRs are strictly representations of my personality and are not influenced by premeditated publication whatsoever.
You broke balls that needed breaking and for that, WE thank you.
Bob,
First of all, sincere condolences regarding your child. My wife and I have been there. Unfortunately, there is no subtle way to add that news to your blog without it seeming like a reach for sympathy. As well spoken as you and Vince are, you both seem to focus only on yourselves regardless of the moment or the situation (as far as this topic is concerned). References to your experiences with Smart Mobs and the obvious decline of the phenomenon had me feeling sympathetic briefly but I also felt sorry for BetaMax engineers. What they did was wonderful but they moved on and many made wonderful technological advancements with their experiences.
Although I understand your point (predetermined recording meant for the blog), I also understand that blogging in and of itself requires content that’s worth the time of the reader and an open invitation for others to critique your thoughts and actions. Your header says it all: “Narcissism at its finest”.
This is not about the AOL recording. This is about “pay attention to ME” and you are both equally guilty of nacissism. Vince just happens to have done something that more people applaud at the moment. I include myself in that category.
I think think you guys would garner a few more months of fame if you contacted each other, shook hands and thought seriously about a collaboratorve effort. You already have blogging in common. That’s a start.
Best of luck to you both.
Kol
July 6th, 2006 at 2:24 pm
Throughout high school (class of ‘89) and college I’ve worked in many CS related positions. Now as a contract programmer I rely on those skills as a tool of my trade.
Simply put…
Customer service has become a thing of the past. So much so that people (myself included) have become numb to realizing that whatever service they have paid for (Internet related or not - buying groceries for example) is usually accompanied by poor to out right rude responses if any customer service is needed.
For this very reason, I (and I would like to believe others) will frequent the companies who are striving to bring the “customer” part back to “customer service”. We should not reward those companies with our continued business if we feel as though we (customers) are looked upon as statistics and dollar signs rather than human beings who work hard for the earned dollar we are spending with them.
AOL (as I’ve read) has no excuse for allowing any policies that do not put the customer first. This of course would be true for all companies.
If the customer would like to give a reason for canceling a service or returning a product, then that is their prerogative. Otherwise the customer should ALWAYS come first if for only the simple reason that they may come back as customers, not to mention it’s just the right thing to do!
Vinny should be commended for what he has done and others should follow his example, who knows we may be able to breathe life back into customer service yet!
Thanks Vinny and remember, if you stir the pot for something you believe in there will always be those who want to tell you you’re not stirring correctly.
We should all think about where our values really should be.
Thx 4 listening,
Scott Reece
July 9th, 2006 at 9:06 pm
Vincent, I am proud of you. You exposed AOL’s Customer Care and Retention Departments for what they really are. I know many former AOL employees and truth be told, the company does not have a real cancellations department. When you attempt to cancel your account you are routed to the Retention department and they are required to attempt to retain you as a customer by offering free months of service, free upgrades, and various other “benefits and incentives.” I have cancelled at least 15 AOL accounts in my time and I have never been as nice or patient as you were on the phone with the rep you were speaking with. Furthermore, I have had to request that the call be escalated to supervisors to have the cancellation request processed. Companies like AOL and Sprint are especially difficult to deal with because whenever you call in, regardless of what you are calling for, the reps are required to make sales or retention attempts on the call. What happened to simple customer service? Why can’t you call to ask a question without being asked to upgrade your service? I think the experience you had and the negative publicity is going to cause a lot of consumers to start thinking harder about their interactions with customer care and support reps. I hope consumers will get wise and either take their money elsewhere or fight for changes in the companies they give their money to. You’ve done a great service to consumers all over the world by outing AOL’s retention department for what it is — a tremendous hassle.
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:19 pm
odgIT BlogNews
Maratón para cancelar una cuenta de AOL…
Esto me hace recordar a cuando hace alrededor de 5 años, traté de dar de baja mi propio servicio en AOL Argentina…Fue realmente una tortura, alrededor de 5 o 6 meses facturados por ellos luego de mi pedido de baja. Llamadas, e-mails, hasta una …