Palin Supported “Death Panels” Too? Yet Another Lie

So now the narrative has changed again, and Sarah Palin is being accused of being hypocritical on “death panels.” The problem is she’s not only not hypocritical, but yet again the media is slinging pitchforks and torches at “the stupid one” to discredit her. Here’s the rub: it isn’t working.

Here’s what she had to say on her Facebook account about her “death panels.”

Our senior citizens are right to be wary of this health care bill. Medical care at the end of life accounts for 80 percent of all health care. When care is rationed, that is naturally where the cuts will be felt first. The “end-of-life” consultations authorized in Section 1233 of HR 3200 were an obvious and heavy handed attempt at pressuring people to reduce the financial burden on the system by minimizing their own care. Worst still, it actually provided a financial incentive to doctors to initiate these consultations. People are right to point out that such a provision doesn’t sound “purely voluntary.”

In an article I noted yesterday, Charles Lane wrote:

“Ideally, the delicate decisions about how to manage life’s end would be made in a setting that is neutral in both appearance and fact. Yes, it’s good to have a doctor’s perspective. But Section 1233 goes beyond facilitating doctor input to preferring it. Indeed, the measure would have an interested party — the government — recruit doctors to sell the elderly on living wills, hospice care and their associated providers, professions and organizations. You don’t have to be a right-wing wacko to question that approach.” [5]

I agree. Last year, I issued a proclamation for “Healthcare Decisions Day.” [6] The proclamation sought to increase the public’s knowledge about creating living wills and establishing powers of attorney. There was no incentive to choose one option over another. There was certainly no financial incentive for physicians to push anything. In fact, the proclamation explicitly called on medical professionals and lawyers “to volunteer their time and efforts” to provide information to the public.

Comparing the “Healthcare Decisions Day” proclamation to Section 1233 of HR 3200 is ridiculous. The two are like apples and oranges. The attempt to link the two shows how desperate the proponents of nationalized health care are to shift the debate away from the disturbing details of their bill.

Here’s a bit more of Lane’s piece.

Until now, federal law has encouraged end-of-life planning — gently. In 1990, Congress required health-care institutions (not individual doctors) to give new patients written notice of their rights to make living wills, advance directives and the like — but also required them to treat patients regardless of whether they have such documents.

The 1997 ban on assisted-suicide support specifically allowed doctors to honor advance directives. And last year, Congress told doctors to offer a brief chat on end-of-life documents to consenting patients during their initial “Welcome to Medicare” physical exam. That mandate took effect this year.

Section 1233, however, addresses compassionate goals in disconcerting proximity to fiscal ones. Supporters protest that they’re just trying to facilitate choice — even if patients opt for expensive life-prolonging care. I think they protest too much: If it’s all about obviating suffering, emotional or physical, what’s it doing in a measure to “bend the curve” on health-care costs?

Though not mandatory, as some on the right have claimed, the consultations envisioned in Section 1233 aren’t quite “purely voluntary,” as Rep. Sander M. Levin (D-Mich.) asserts. To me, “purely voluntary” means “not unless the patient requests one.” Section 1233, however, lets doctors initiate the chat and gives them an incentive — money — to do so. Indeed, that’s an incentive to insist.

Patients may refuse without penalty, but many will bow to white-coated authority. Once they’re in the meeting, the bill does permit “formulation” of a plug-pulling order right then and there. So when Rep. Earl Blumenauer (D-Ore.) denies that Section 1233 would “place senior citizens in situations where they feel pressured to sign end-of-life directives that they would not otherwise sign,” I don’t think he’s being realistic.

What’s more, Section 1233 dictates, at some length, the content of the consultation. The doctor “shall” discuss “advanced care planning, including key questions and considerations, important steps, and suggested people to talk to”; “an explanation of . . . living wills and durable powers of attorney, and their uses” (even though these are legal, not medical, instruments); and “a list of national and State-specific resources to assist consumers and their families.” The doctor “shall” explain that Medicare pays for hospice care (hint, hint).

Admittedly, this script is vague and possibly unenforceable. What are “key questions”? Who belongs on “a list” of helpful “resources”? The Roman Catholic Church? Jack Kevorkian?

Ideally, the delicate decisions about how to manage life’s end would be made in a setting that is neutral in both appearance and fact. Yes, it’s good to have a doctor’s perspective. But Section 1233 goes beyond facilitating doctor input to preferring it. Indeed, the measure would have an interested party — the government — recruit doctors to sell the elderly on living wills, hospice care and their associated providers, professions and organizations. You don’t have to be a right-wing wacko to question that approach.

There’s an obvious and apparent difference between a proclamation on responsible end of life planning and a government mandated sit down every few years (then later every year) at a doctor’s office. That is, if you want to see it. Of course, if you’re just out to discredit your opponents, the differences utterly disappear.

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  • http://jeffandcarol.com/jeff Jeff Egnaczyk

    You say:

    “There’s an obvious and apparent difference between a proclamation on responsible end of life planning and a government mandated sit down every few years…”

    Yet your own excerpt says:

    “Though not mandatory…”

    It’s not mandatory like you suggest. It’s about giving the patient more information. That allows the patient, as a consumer, to make a better – or at least a more informed – choice. That’s the lynch pin of a free market economy.

    There’s evidence to suggest that this information leads to less suffering, lower costs and doesn’t affect life span. Republicans like Palin, Isakson, Grassley and Gingrich have supported similar provisions in the past.

    Both of your excerpts deride the financial incentive a doctor has to make this consultation. Yes, the doctor will be getting paid to provide a service. Yet Palin says “Medical care at the end of life accounts for 80 percent of all health care.” So how much of a financial incentive is the doctor going to get that it will override 80 of all health care? It’s not.

    “The two are like apples and oranges.”

    Apples and oranges are, of course, very similar.

  • http://jeffandcarol.com/jeff Jeff Egnaczyk

    You say:

    “There’s an obvious and apparent difference between a proclamation on responsible end of life planning and a government mandated sit down every few years…”

    Yet your own excerpt says:

    “Though not mandatory…”

    It’s not mandatory like you suggest. It’s about giving the patient more information. That allows the patient, as a consumer, to make a better – or at least a more informed – choice. That’s the lynch pin of a free market economy.

    There’s evidence to suggest that this information leads to less suffering, lower costs and doesn’t affect life span. Republicans like Palin, Isakson, Grassley and Gingrich have supported similar provisions in the past.

    Both of your excerpts deride the financial incentive a doctor has to make this consultation. Yes, the doctor will be getting paid to provide a service. Yet Palin says “Medical care at the end of life accounts for 80 percent of all health care.” So how much of a financial incentive is the doctor going to get that it will override 80 of all health care? It’s not.

    “The two are like apples and oranges.”

    Apples and oranges are, of course, very similar.

  • http://www.insignificantthoughts.com/ Vinny

    Don’t cherry pick quotes. Here’s the money quote:

    Ideally, the delicate decisions about how to manage life’s end would be made in a setting that is neutral in both appearance and fact. Yes, it’s good to have a doctor’s perspective. But Section 1233 goes beyond facilitating doctor input to preferring it. Indeed, the measure would have an interested party — the government — recruit doctors to sell the elderly on living wills, hospice care and their associated providers, professions and organizations. You don’t have to be a right-wing wacko to question that approach.

    I’d say that’s pretty straightforward.

    Secondly, you said before that Palin supported the same provisions in the past. She did no such thing. Her “support” amounted to an announcement of a day recognizing the need for people to be responsible about their end of life care. She didn’t require anyone to be called every five years, and then every years before a doctor (or some other bureaucrat) to be lectured on end of life decisions.

    She didn’t ask for doctor consultations, but she did encourage doctors to volunteer to consult with people if they were interested. No profit motive.

    She didn’t really ask for anything; what she said was people should be responsible and get it done. I’d like to see what provisions of this bill you believe she supported at some point. I heard that a lot over the last few days, but of course since that narrative wasn’t sent out with specifics, people parroting the talking point aren’t being more detailed.

    Finally, have you ever heard of hospice care? That counts as end of life care, doesn’t it? I mean, the whole point of hospice care is to take care of the dying until they die. I believe that would count toward “end of life medical care.”

    50 states have provisions that require insurers to cover end of life consultations if a patient wants them. There are no calls to remind potential clients. There are no annual reminders. Just the knowledge that if you want the care and would like to talk about it, you’re allowed to. With your doctor. At your leisure. Without nanny nagging you to do so. Particularly without nanny repeatedly nagging you as you get older because your death is more imminent.

    You’re right now that I think about it. Apples and oranges are similar.

    Horeshit stands alone.

  • http://www.insignificantthoughts.com Vinny

    Don’t cherry pick quotes. Here’s the money quote:

    Ideally, the delicate decisions about how to manage life’s end would be made in a setting that is neutral in both appearance and fact. Yes, it’s good to have a doctor’s perspective. But Section 1233 goes beyond facilitating doctor input to preferring it. Indeed, the measure would have an interested party — the government — recruit doctors to sell the elderly on living wills, hospice care and their associated providers, professions and organizations. You don’t have to be a right-wing wacko to question that approach.

    I’d say that’s pretty straightforward.

    Secondly, you said before that Palin supported the same provisions in the past. She did no such thing. Her “support” amounted to an announcement of a day recognizing the need for people to be responsible about their end of life care. She didn’t require anyone to be called every five years, and then every years before a doctor (or some other bureaucrat) to be lectured on end of life decisions.

    She didn’t ask for doctor consultations, but she did encourage doctors to volunteer to consult with people if they were interested. No profit motive.

    She didn’t really ask for anything; what she said was people should be responsible and get it done. I’d like to see what provisions of this bill you believe she supported at some point. I heard that a lot over the last few days, but of course since that narrative wasn’t sent out with specifics, people parroting the talking point aren’t being more detailed.

    Finally, have you ever heard of hospice care? That counts as end of life care, doesn’t it? I mean, the whole point of hospice care is to take care of the dying until they die. I believe that would count toward “end of life medical care.”

    50 states have provisions that require insurers to cover end of life consultations if a patient wants them. There are no calls to remind potential clients. There are no annual reminders. Just the knowledge that if you want the care and would like to talk about it, you’re allowed to. With your doctor. At your leisure. Without nanny nagging you to do so. Particularly without nanny repeatedly nagging you as you get older because your death is more imminent.

    You’re right now that I think about it. Apples and oranges are similar.

    Horeshit stands alone.

  • http://www.insignificantthoughts.com/ Vinny

    Oh, and if that part of the bill was so innocuous, why did the Senate remove it?

    Surely they would’ve been better off explaining it and clarifying it than completely scrapping it.

  • http://www.insignificantthoughts.com Vinny

    Oh, and if that part of the bill was so innocuous, why did the Senate remove it?

    Surely they would’ve been better off explaining it and clarifying it than completely scrapping it.

  • http://jeffandcarol.com/jeff Jeff Egnaczyk

    “I’d say that’s pretty straightforward.”

    I’d say it’s wrong. I’ve reread section 1233 and I still do not see anything that says these “panels” are mandatory. All that the bill says is how often consultations will be allowed – as in paid for. The bill, as far as I can tell, is saying “we’ll pay for this consultation but only every five years unless the patient’s health changes dramatically.” Even the quote you recite:

    “But Section 1233 goes beyond facilitating doctor input to preferring it.”

    does not say it’s mandatory. Preferring is not requiring. I understand better where you’re coming from based on your comment but I just don’t see it. I guess I could understand how you could interpret it that way but I don’t think it’s the correct one.

  • http://jeffandcarol.com/jeff Jeff Egnaczyk

    “I’d say that’s pretty straightforward.”

    I’d say it’s wrong. I’ve reread section 1233 and I still do not see anything that says these “panels” are mandatory. All that the bill says is how often consultations will be allowed – as in paid for. The bill, as far as I can tell, is saying “we’ll pay for this consultation but only every five years unless the patient’s health changes dramatically.” Even the quote you recite:

    “But Section 1233 goes beyond facilitating doctor input to preferring it.”

    does not say it’s mandatory. Preferring is not requiring. I understand better where you’re coming from based on your comment but I just don’t see it. I guess I could understand how you could interpret it that way but I don’t think it’s the correct one.

  • http://www.insignificantthoughts.com/ Vinny

    It doesn’t say attending is mandatory, however, the clear takeaway is that every five years, then every year you’ll get a call about this “consultation.” In essence, you’ll be harangued until you show up for one of these things. People will have them just to get the gov’t off their back. Optional (ie: not mandatory) would be one call. “Wanna do it? No? Okay! We won’t bother you!”

    Again, I go back to them taking it out of the Senate bill. I personally think they’re suprised people read it, and they realized it could be interpreted exactly as I did by anyone (including a court) and decided the better of having it at all. Personally, I think that strengthens Palin’s point much more than it discredits it.

    There’s no doubt that calling them “death panels” was a stroke of pure hyperbole, but let’s call a spade a spade here. These consultations were, at the very least, designed to make you think about your end of life care (fine, really), maybe go into a hospice (money money money!), and take care of your living will, power of attorney, etc. They’re clearly forcing you, indirectly or directly, to make a decision and putting pressure on you to do so.

    The problem is that these consultations are not necessary, and anyone in any state can have one with a doctor right now and it’s covered. 100%. The difference is that people aren’t being cajoled into it and maybe pressured into accepting something just to “get ‘em off my back.” (the tyranny of the white coat, as mentioned by the author).

  • http://www.insignificantthoughts.com Vinny

    It doesn’t say attending is mandatory, however, the clear takeaway is that every five years, then every year you’ll get a call about this “consultation.” In essence, you’ll be harangued until you show up for one of these things. People will have them just to get the gov’t off their back. Optional (ie: not mandatory) would be one call. “Wanna do it? No? Okay! We won’t bother you!”

    Again, I go back to them taking it out of the Senate bill. I personally think they’re suprised people read it, and they realized it could be interpreted exactly as I did by anyone (including a court) and decided the better of having it at all. Personally, I think that strengthens Palin’s point much more than it discredits it.

    There’s no doubt that calling them “death panels” was a stroke of pure hyperbole, but let’s call a spade a spade here. These consultations were, at the very least, designed to make you think about your end of life care (fine, really), maybe go into a hospice (money money money!), and take care of your living will, power of attorney, etc. They’re clearly forcing you, indirectly or directly, to make a decision and putting pressure on you to do so.

    The problem is that these consultations are not necessary, and anyone in any state can have one with a doctor right now and it’s covered. 100%. The difference is that people aren’t being cajoled into it and maybe pressured into accepting something just to “get ‘em off my back.” (the tyranny of the white coat, as mentioned by the author).